Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I read the post about using type-F transmission fluid and was wondering. I reciently replaced most of the trans fluid in my Ultramatic with trick-shift in order to hopefully clean out the governor. (post: od will not disengage).
Well this (TS trans fluid) worked when the trans had time to heat up. Still holds/stalls when cold. Could live with that except now the trans doesn't engage. If I put it in reverse (idle) it takes about 15 seconds till it very gently slides into gear (almost unnoticable) forget drive and or low it doesn't engage at all. Now do I go back to Type-F or is my rebuild with less than 200 miles on it trash ?

Yes there is fluid in it although that blue fluid is real hard to see on the dipstick. If I add any fluid it does end up on the floor BTW. Neat way to prevent the trans from being over filled.

Hopefully one of you has some good news.

Thanks
OTG

In my 1950 when this started, it came down to the servo seals not holding pressure. Good thing i took it apart for a rebuild, the cork was starting to come apart on the direct drive clutch (no doubt due to a hot, angry, bitter 3 hour drive home from a show that finished it off) and the clutch plates were wore down pretty well (so i was told by the rebuilder)

If you have time and funds, get a rebuild kit, and have it done or do it. Now i have no delay in gear (actually hits pretty decent when you put it in gear now) and everything works smoothly, better then it had ever worked for me.

Also, if you put it in reverse and give it gas and it goes into gear sooner than the 15 seconds you're waiting in idle, that would be another clue that possibly there's internal leaks inside the tranny that's costing you pressure, and giving it gas is helping overcome that.

I don't believe there is any need to change fluid back to type F--unless it is burned in which case you have a bigger problem.

You didn't mention if it was a professional rebuild, how long ago, if the car sat, or how many years it took to accumulate the 200 miles. If it was a recently done rebuild by a professional, I would think a reputable business would look to see what is happening. If that's not an option then perhaps a visit with a knowledgeable mechanic who is a frequent poster here and located in your state would be in order.

I'm certainly no expert on rebuilding Ultramatics or even diagnosing their problems. I've tried my hand on two back in the 60s and 70s with mixed results. I had the 56 Carib done last year by Ross Miller and couldn't be more satisfied.

Let's remember, as these cars fell out of service as front-line transportation they were often bought for cheap transportation, probably by a succession of owners who progressively paid less and less attention to maintenance. And most were finally abandoned when they simply failed to go - usually motor or transmission problems. Some "repairs" might have been attempted, some of which probably qualified as butcher jobs.

There's a large range of meanings to the word "rebuilt". IMO any attempt to diagnose Ultramatic problems should include a full pressure test regime. If all a transmission required was the replacement of "soft parts" like bands & clutches, anyone with decent mechanical skills or a local trans shop could replace them, call it "rebuilt", and have a successful result. And if you're that far into it, you'd be foolish not to replace the bushings as well. But if you trust it to a run-of-the-mill transmission shop and the problems are deeper than that, almost certainly the rebuilder won't be aware of what to look for in terms of the many upgrades both by the factory and that have come to pass more recently; elimination of the wave washer in 1956 torque converters, drilling and pinning fulcrum arms to shafts instead of relying on taper-headed set screws, upgrading the parking pawl and shaft, hardened replacement rear pump drive sleeves, 40-spline pump rotor replacing the 20-spline unit, and many more. In the case of my 56 it had been serviced before and had a 1955 input shaft installed which is not compatible. Additionally the shaft was scored sufficiently to require replacement. A prior "rebuilder" didn't have a clue about these matters. How many of this type of thing is a local shop likely to be aware of and resolve? So my point is, don't assume a replacement of soft linings and bushings will necessarily constitute a properly rebuilt transmission.

Packard put a lot of effort into continual upgrading of the Ultramatic; an interesting review of their early teething problems as compared to early PowerFlite, PowerGlide, Dynaflow, Hydramatic, etc. (all of which had some very significant early problems) can be found in Lloyd Storm's article "Ultramatic Drive - the Case for the Defense" in The Packard Cormorant, Issue #42.

Well now it doesn't go into any gear. Without checking my records I would guess the trans was rebuilt about 2-3 years ago. Didn't run it much because of overheating problems and the fact that I listened to the "Don't convert to 12volt"
group. Converted and 90% of my problems went away. Actually started and ran great. Got a new pertronix distributor insert, gas milage went up, Headlights are bright enough to see a deer when it is more than 10 feet ahead of the car.
For a daily driver convert it you will not be sorry ! It costs less to convert than it does to Muck with the stock crap that never runs right. Besides you can get a jump from a buddy when it won't start instead of a tow back to the shop. Ok now I have my gloves off ! LOL

Back to the transmission.. yes it was rebuilt by an expert.
I'll leave it at that. This is what REALLY bothers me.

Wondering if the trick-sh*t lacks the friction that type-F has or something stupid like that. I am not too proud to say that I screwed up. Seems every time I get someone to do something on any one of my vehicles I end up doing it again the correct way.

Really don't want to believe that for all the money that I put into that trans that it only lasted this long.

Maybe I shouldn't have listened to the "keep it stock" group and put a hemi or viper V10 in it day one and not had all this fun. This was the 5th time I took it to work (approx 12 miles) and didn't have to get a tow home.

Thinking about dumping all the fluid and replacing it with type F and seeing what happens. Any other ideas ?

If I sound terse I apologize. Not your fault I realize that.

Thanks
OTG

Just FYI, 6-volt cars can be jump-started from 12-volt systems.

Re the Ultramatic, I doubt your problem has anything at all to do with the choice of fluid type. You might drop the pan and see if the inlet screen is choked with debris.

Hmm, a friend across town with an unmolested, unrestored 1950 Brand-X survivor never seems to have a problem with its 6-volt system - except for the radio, which probably just needs some caps. Of course, one of the first things he did when he got the car out of its long sleep was to go through things like the starter, generator and regulator (himself).

Now, when it comes to ANY transmission, a fluid change is a reasonable and inexpensive first approach at solving a problem, but all the friction modifiers in the worlds won't do any good if a unit that's been rebuilt just a few years isn't going into any gear.

If you wanna fix it, get someone to hook up a set of pressure gauges and run the tests per the manual.

OTG, I just noticed that you're in Maryland. One of the very best Ultramatic men in the business has his shop in Maryland. As HH56 has already suggested, why not just make contact with Ross Miller and discuss your problem with him?

FYI - Ross is out doing his Missionary work and well be out of pocket except for the occasional email until February.