Packard Forum Index » Studebaker Built Packards (1957 - 58)

I've had some contentious words at times with folks about how to try to tell a "Packardbaker" from a Studebaker if you removed all the "bolt-ons" and badges that supposedly transformed a Studebaker into a Packard. Some might get the impression that I don't like the '57 and '58 "Packards" but I think they are interesting. But I think that one needs to put quotation marks around all of them, because they lack practically any Packard engineered and produced parts, save for tail lights (in some cases) and instrumentation.

My question is, why didn't the new Studebaker-Packard corporation at least take a stab at making a more realistic Packard offering by actually putting a Packard ENGINE in a Packardbaker? It's just so weird to me. The Packard Hawk was a perfect example. A real 352 that said Packard on the valve covers would've given it a lot more bona fides in the mind of the motoring public that may still have wanted to buy an actual Packard. This would have required no special tooling or effort (sorely lacking on the part of the South Bend production facilities) but just to drop a 352 or even a 374 into the chassis.

What were they thinking? I think a lot more Packard enthusiasts would still be interested in one of the '57 or '58 offerings if they at least had a "marque correct" engine. I know I would be. But if you want a lightweight Stude body and chassis with a Packard engine, you have to buy a complete Studebaker Golden Hawk to get it.

Was Studebaker simply using the '57 and '58 Packard models as mules fro their supercharged V8? For instance, if the engines didn't work very well, the Studebaker name wasn't really on the line, was it? Notice that in '57 and '58, ONLY the "Golden Hawk" Studebaker got the supercharged 8, but ALL the Packard models had the engine, and in '59, where is Moses? No more supercharged 289. All of them apparently "remaindered" in the last "Packard"s.

Of course, in '56 the Studebaker Golden Hawk got the Packard 352... maybe they would've liked to continue that arrangement, but, alas, no more real Packard V8s were being produced.

The first part of the hyphenated term for this arrangement would seem to be "cluster-"

Ah yes, what were they thinking?

They were thinking that there was no place to produce a Packard engine as they could not keep the Utica plant open and no on else wanted to buy the tooling for it when it was offered.

They were thinking that big engine set very far forward as it would be in the sedan bodies would be unworkable.

They were thinking that in 56 darn few people wanted to buy a Packard even with a Packard engine.

They were thinking that they had to produce a Packard car to honor the dealer sales agreement or be sued to death.

They were thinking that the Stude 289 was a fine engine but needed to have a higher rated hp for that market and supercharging was a good way to do it.

And by 58 they were thinking that the medium priced car market was collapsing, so we'd better try the compact field next year.

Lacking any sort of government assistance they pulled off a comfortable, well built, reliable medium priced car for minimal tooling expense. Just like a--Packard Clipper.

Studebaker applied a supercharger to their 289 to make it meet whichever market they were hoping to hit. There was not a problem in 57,58 or again in 63 or 64. The engines are quite reliable and surprisingly zesty even when not supercharged.

The Packardbakers were of course based on the 56 President Classic. If you are on the east coast sometime I'll take you around the backroads in mine. Bring a change of trousers.

Hi

Simply, within the Curtiss-Wright Joint Management agreement, the Utica engine plant was one of the spoils among others that C-W extracted for the $35M in '57 operating capital that S-P received to keep them going. S-P was in dire financial condition all the way from early '56 right through the forth quarter of '58 when the Lark began to sell. They couldn't afford to even bring the Packard engine tooling to South Bend for production or much of anything else for that matter. To say the corporation survived by the skin of their teeth would be to make understatement.

Possibly a Detroit Packard engine might have helped sales though most buyers recognized the '57 Clippers as part and parcel Studebakers, engine notwithstanding, something they had previously dismissed as unacceptable as when considering a new car. The price premium over the Studebaker President was hard to justify. They also had the badge-engineered Hudson "Hash" as an example of what would become of their resale value in the used car market.

At the time, the news magazine business pages reported S-P's financial troubles on a weekly basis. No one wanted to be stuck with an orphan when the company went out of business as all rumors seem to indicate. That avoidance of such cars made the rumors a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Steve

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Ah yes, where were they going to put that extra 10 or 15 pounds?

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Ah yes, the worst offenders.


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Ah yes, I think you can keep your trousers on about the Packard V8 being an unsuitable replacement for the blown Studebaker 289 in '57 and '58. Considering the dismally small run of '57 and '58 Packard Hawks, for instance, there were probably enough Packard V8s just lying around to fit the entire production run... and make these cars just a tiny bit closer to real Packards.

Ah, yes.

Everyone covered the ground quite thoroughly. The engine was a non-starter for Studebaker in 1957.

One thing I have always wondered is whether the engine could have found application in a high-end Packard-badged truck series. Studebaker's pick-up styling was outdated by 1957 but International had a nice modern look. Perhaps a deal could have been struck and the "quickie" styling money funneled towards the '57 Packardbaker might have instead served to create a nice looking Packard truck series. Certainly the engine would have been a brute.

By 1957, after years of botched management decisions, Packard really had only one avenue to survival, if it had any. It had to borrow heavily from another OEM. Perhaps International for the truck, Merc Turnpike Cruiser for a body and frame upon which to create a Predictor sedan, coupe and convertible. Such strategic maneuverings would have depended heavily on the donor company's willingness to partner.

What in the world is this? Did they actually do a Studapackapickup series?

It was done for export to Argentina only. Perhaps for a specific order where importing a Stude truck would have stepped on some existing contract agreements.

Is it me, or are people in the Packardinfo community kind of "testy" lately??? (Just a trend I am seeing in threads.)

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Can you please explain how this ground has been covered? Once again, I don't claim to be an "expert," but if the Golden Hawk used this engine in 1956, what made it a "non-starter" in a Packard Hawk a year or two later? The engines WERE available, they didn't have to be built in Detroit or South Bend, they were already built. They certainly were crate-able and shippable as well as salable as-is. They were used over the following years in marine conversions and even, so I've read on these pages, sold in JC Whitney catalogs to the delight of quite a few hot rodders and racers. Perhaps even in the pickups exported to Argentina. I don't know, Kev didn't say. Thanks for the great pics, Kev, with writing on the windshield no less.

I find the objections to the feasibility of a Packard-powered Packard Hawk at best confusing, and at worst based on specious reasoning, or perhaps "testiness."

Remember, also, Studebaker did not go out of business, just Packard disappeared, and I offered the question in this thread mainly to understand why there wasn't more of an effort to appeal at least a little bit to Packard buyers while South Bend got straightened out with some facilities to produce a Packard more suitable to bear the name.

A lot of the "what-ifs" about how Packard could have avoided demise just point out what Packard shoulda coulda done differently before the great merger debacle, rather than considering what the folks in South Bend could have done once the die was cast by Packard to throw in their lot with them. At least the remains of the companies could have left us with a couple of model years of racy, lightweight, Packard-powered cars in the tradition of the "roadsters" that had been part of the Packard legacy from years gone by.

As far as I'm concerned, the "Golden Hawk" proved that it could have been done. Was their resale value stunted because of the Packard engine? I don't think Nash makes a very good comparison, as they weren't part of the S-P corporation, and not even vaguely the same style of automobile.