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Which fuel is recommended?
#1
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Xavier Brulez
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Hi,

Maybe another silly question...

Here in Europe, we have 2 kinds of fuels: Euro 95 ( regular ) and Eurosuper 98 ( supreme ).
Until 5 years ago all fuels contained lead, right now, they're all unleaded.

Some friends on the Belgian American Car Board say that with these old engines lead was necessary for a good working order and that means that I have to add some additives on the Euro95 / regular fuel to have a placebo for the lead.

Is this correct???

Do these cars need a lead containing fuel?



By the way, what's the fuel price in the US right now?

Here it costs for 1 litre regular: ? 1.50 and for a litre supreme ? 1.60
When I make a conversion it gives

( 1 gallon = 3.785 liter ) ( today: ? 1.- = $ 1.5684 )

regular: $8.90 for 1 gallon
supreme: $9.50 for 1 gallon

Horrable, isn't it !!??

Xavier

Posted on: 2008/7/23 17:19
Resized Image PONTIAC FIREBIRD 3.1 V6 '91 + FIREBIRD Esprit 4.1 L6 '80 + CHEVROLET CAPRICE Wagon 5.0 V8 '87 [img]http://uniform.messageboard.nl/10060/images/smiles/fl
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#2
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Rusty O\'Toole
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Not a silly question at all.

Leaded gas was first made in the late 1920s. Octane levels and lead levels remained low for many years. In the 1930s most cars used gas from 50 to 65 octane, special high compression engines use gas of 75 octane.

Until the early 1950s low lead gas of 60 to 75 octane was the rule. Cars had hardened valve seats and were made to run on low lead, low octane gas.

With the advent of the new high compression, overhead valve V8's compression ratios and lead requirements rose rapidly. Octane levels in the 80s for regular, and in the 90s for high octane were the rule.

Fuels of up to 103 octane were sold in the 50s and 60s for special high performance models.

The rule is, the octane should look like the compression ratio.

Older flathead models of 6:1 to 7:1 compression, require gas of 60 or 70 octane.

High compression engines of up to 9.5:1 require 95 octane. Compression ratios of 10:1 require 100 octane.

Naturally this is not an exact law. But the octane should be similar to the compression ratio.

Unleaded gas, or low lead gas is fine for engines before 1954 and after 1970. Those made from 1954 to 1970 may benefit from an additive like Redex or Bardahl in the gas to protect the valves.*

95 or 98 octane is plenty high enough for all production engines.

Here in Cobourg Ontario Canada today gas is $1.29 for one litre of 87 octane regular. 91 octane is $1.39

$1.29 = $4.88 a gallon. $1.39= $5.25

Latest news flash, today July 24 gas dropped to $1.21 reg, $1.29 hi test

*Note, this refers to American cars. The heavily leaded high octane gas came in around 1954. The first car I know of that had NO exhaust valve seat inserts or valve guides, was the Chev V8 introduced in late 1954 as a 1955 model.

Unleaded gas became available in 1970 for 1971 models, the first cars with catalytic converters.

All American cars from 1971 model year up, are built to run on unleaded gas.

I know in Europe the heavily leaded high octane gas did not become available until later, and unleaded gas did not come in until the 80s. So for European models you will have to consult the maker to find out what type gas is suitable for your car.

Posted on: 2008/7/23 17:35
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#3
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HH56
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In my part of California gas is around $4.50--down from about $4.70 3 wks ago.

Posted on: 2008/7/23 18:06
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#4
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Owen_Dyneto
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Two comments. Here is NJ is just paid $3.81 for regular (non-branded) gas yesterday, down from a high of about $4.05 a few weeks ago. Seems a bargain!

Concerning tetraethyl lead and octane, I pretty much agree with the prior comments of Rusty who is always right on target. Before I had my 34 Eight rebuilt (has hardened exhaust seats now), I bought regular gas (87 octane, and certainly didn't even need that) and added genuine tetraethyl lead every other fillup, not to increase octane (CR is only about 5.5/1) but for valve stem and seat protection. Whether I really needed it probably depended primarily a bit on driving conditions. If I were to drive the car at 55 mph or so (the practical limit, esp. with the 4.69 rear) for sustained periods the lead was probably useful. For just local driving I probably could have gotten along fine for tens of thousands of miles without it.

My 56 Caribbean gives quite a bit of ping even on modest acceleration with 91 octane, and even Sunoco 93, and knocking back the timing a few degrees so degrades the performance I decided to add tetraethyl lead to boost the octane, and continue to do so. Perhaps the heads were milled once, don't know. I keep looking for a set of the export head gaskets which reduced compression for the generally lower grades of gasoline then available overseas.

Posted on: 2008/7/23 19:02
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#5
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Packard53
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Rusty: I have a 1966 Chevy Chevelle with a 230 6 cylinder engine with a compression ratio of 8.5 to 1. The original owners manual calls for 90 octane gas. My Chevelle always seemed to run very well on 89 octane gas, with no ping.

John F. Shireman

Posted on: 2008/7/23 19:43
REMEMBERING BRAD BERRY MY PACKARD TEACHER
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#6
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Rusty O\'Toole
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As I said it is not an exact law. Some engines of the same compression ratio, may be happy with a lower octane fuel, others require a little higher.

It depends on the design of the engine, the combustion chamber, even the amount of carbon buildup in the head which can raise the compression pressure.

In your case, for 8.5:1 I would have said "above 85 octane should be OK". I notice you say it runs fine on 89 octane, and the factory recommended 90 so we are all in the same ballpark.

Have you tried an 85 octane gas or is 89 the lowest available?

Here is another thing most people don't know. There are actually 2 different systems of calculating octane ratings, the Motor and the Research method. They differ slightly from each other.

Since the 70s advertised octane ratings have been the average of the Motor and Research ratings. So if you are looking in an old book today's gas could be called 89 octane, but be the same as the old 87 octane or 90 octane depending which rating they used.

Posted on: 2008/7/24 8:48
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#7
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Charles Neuhaus
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Many of us with Packard V-8s are bothered by the low octane, alcohol corrupted, gas available today. The octane is too low and it has no lead. How many of you know that it is illegal for gas companies to add Tetraethyl lead, but perfectly legal for you to add it? Furthermore pure tetraethyl lead is available (quite legally) here in the States. It is sold by Vogel Products, Inc., 860 Repp Drive, Columbus, Indiana 47201, Phone: (812)376-2775. With this product you can increase octane to over 100, while protecting your valves. I only use it for hard driving on my 56 Patrician, but it seems to work fine.

Posted on: 2008/7/24 11:09
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#8
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Owen_Dyneto
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Some of you may find this interesting. I don't remember the source right now, and no doubt it probably doesn't apply with equal validity to all vehicles w/o hardened seats.

Attach file:



jpg  (56.15 KB)
177_4888adab41f13.jpg 701X435 px

Posted on: 2008/7/24 11:29
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#9
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Eric Boyle
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If octane is the problem, change out all the rubber hoses on the car to alcohol resistant and run E85. It's 105 octane, the car will run cooler, and it won't build up carbon like gasoline does. A '56 Packard with the stock 10:1 compression would love it. You'll have to have the carb gone through too, along with the fuel tank. The alcohol will clean your fuel system up so good you'll be replacing fuel filters regularly for the first 1000 miles or so. Better keep some spares in the glove box!

Posted on: 2008/7/24 13:48
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Re: Which fuel is recommended?
#10
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Bowman Davis
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I did a carburetor rebuild exchange with Kanter a couple of years ago and it supposedly has been adapted for e 85 ethanol but I suppose time will be the final judge as to that.

Posted on: 2008/7/25 19:27
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