bump

Report to follow....

Attach file:

---

  (131.49 KB)


  (97.62 KB)

We are talking the same relay, but slightly different schematics. I am looking at page 7 of the Econo-Drive Serviceman's training booklet (I attached that page just for easier reference).
Apparently in that schematic, the orientation is from the back of the relay. This makes everything make SOME sense, except that, in this case, when looking at the relay on the firewall, #1 terminal is at the upper left position. That would mean that the terminal that is always powered (always turns on my light) is terminal three, which I have been assuming to be terminal #1. Had I removed some wires, I might have seen the terminals are numbered. This does clear up my earlier comment about the placement of the relays vs. the terminals, but now I am really confused as what I think I am seeing must be impossible, because it appears that the #3 terminal in the only one that constantly will light my tester. It also means contacting the #6 terminal is making my solenoid actuate. I think I will need to trace down the wires end to end to understand this better.

The kill switch that I am talking about is just a devise that disconnects the negative cable before the starter. I never use it because I have no drain when the car is parked, but I have been using it for this purpose to avoid working underneath with a bunch of hot wires and to avoid energizing my system too long jumping across the governor. Of course, since that has mostly not worked, it hasn't really been an issue.

Now I am feeling pretty stupid. I am going back to re-look at everything.

Attach file:

---

Size: 609.21 KB; Hits: 38

I have read many postings and listened to many people talk about their engine temp staying around 190 degrees in all conditions. To me this seems wrong. The thermostat is there to keep the water from circulating thru the radiator until the engine warms up past the thermostats rated temp. At the 190 degree temp it is full open. The water temp must rise above 212 or there would be no need for a pressure cap. The fact that there is pressure in the system indicates that the temp is above 212 degrees. How are these guys measuring the engine temp? Most factory gauges only show cold to hot. Not the actual temp. I have a mechanical temp gauge on my 250 ci. chevy van that reads higher than 240 degrees under normal freeway driving and higher than that on hot days. The system does not boil over and I do not ever have to add water. This is the second gauge I have had on this engine with the same readings.

Just can't believe that any engine will run no hotter than the rating of the thermostat.

Another interesting statement more people than I can count have said is that the engine will run cooler if you replace your 190 degree thermostat with a 180 degree one. This is just not true.

Is there something about 30's and 40's cooling systems that is different than say the ones in the 50's? Are they all unpressurized? I know my 31 ford was not a pressure system.

OMG they look mint in the pics. I think there will be some unhappy online high bidders. Even the '78 Toronado looks way better in the pics than it actually was. And the '51 Packard was nowhere near as good as it looks in the pics. I'm glad I went in person and saw what they really looked like. Although some of the non-Packards were nice.

Making a sleeve type is what I'll likely end up doing. Sounds like a good idea. I was even thinking about a large snap ring. Don't know if the temps have changed since I haven't driven it after install yet. While I was putting it back together, my mother was doing some gardening and disturbed a nest of hornets in the ground, sending a couple hundred in my direction. I'm on day 2 and spray can 4 in fighting them off. Still about 20-30 left and still pissed. Since I'm allergic to bees, I'll let them have the car for now...
Prior to working on thermostat, the temps ran hot in as little as 7 to 10 minutes if not driving. It varied depending on outside temperature. On a day above 85F, it would be near the hot end of guage after a 6 mile city drive. On an average day, (70F-80F) it would stay in upper third of guage while driving.

Post movie crew departure, I again have the clones at my place.

The Caprice is to be sold. It was kind of beat up during the last shoot in the desert. The LF pusher bar broken off at the bottom, the alignment kind of whacked and the car covered in dirt with footprints all over it.

The Firebird is to be given to a famous actress whose name I am not at liberty to divulge. Apparently the producer owes her a favor, i.e., a Trans Am, from a prior movie. We are in the process of pretty-fying it for handoff in a week or two.

A lot of people wanted the Packards, but they are not for sale.

Craig

Here is a bit more to add to the mix.

R9 Relay operation: There is a bit of description in the manual but maybe this will flesh it out--or confuse issues further.

Power is supplied to terminal 1, thru first relay coil & out terminal 5. Thru closed lockout switch, closed kickdown switch and gets ground when car reaches speed.

First relay energizes and provides power to term 4, solenoid pull in coil and indicator light. Indicator will light as solenoid still not fully engaged and light contacts are closed. At the same time first relay opens the contacts tied to terminal 2. Power is also supplied to and thru the coil of second relay and out terminal 3 to hold coil. Since they are in series, second relay closes contacts tied to terminal 6 and hold coil now has power and will prevent the machine gunning.

When you let off the gas, engine torque is released, and solenoid fully engages. Pull in coil contacts open that circuit. Indicator light contacts open, extinguishing light, but engine kill contacts now close at 6. Engine is not affected though because kill circuit goes thru term 6, closed second relay contacts but no further because first relay contacts are now open so can't exit on term 2 and get to distributor. This is the state of things as long as you are in overdrive.

When you exit overdrive via kickdown, that switch opens dropping out first relay and power to solenoid. Solenoid can't release until torque released so kill circuit is now completed by previously open first relay contacts at 2 and engine skips a beat until solenoid drops out and opens that set of kill contacts. Just before it opens the kill contacts it closes pull in coil contacts. The second relay will drop out because it also lost power but because it's coil is now in series with pull in coil & hold coil, will have a slight delay of a few milliseconds until everything quiets down. There is a bit of a race as to which contacts opens first but once open it ensures kill circuit is open in case of a bind at solenoid and engine can continue running.

When OD is in lockout, nothing can be energized when governor reaches speed because ground never reaches relay.

Attach file:

---

  (61.80 KB)

Well all that is up in the air right now, in that I am appealing the decision. I do not expect to get far as this company has a lot of influence in this town, but the game is not over yet.

PS

That may be true in a "right to work" state, but not in a "work at will" such as Ga. and Al.

Your argument is logical and could well be so, I was only going by what the owner told me.

Unfortunately it was one of the few 37 cars in the showroom where I didn't get a chance to note the body serial number which would tell if it was a 36 or even 35 body number. As I'm sure you know there are many examples of these bodies being left unsold at the end of a model year and updated for sale as a following year vehicle, though it is much more often the case with a Twelve.

I personally thought the car had a rather homely, awkward style.