I had a similar problem with my '56 Patrician after I had the carby rebuilt. The problem turned out to be exactly what Craig is suggesting. In my case a small hair or whisker, probably from the carby rebuilder, had lodged in the seat of the power valve which wouldn't allow it to reseat and seal properly. It was fixed simply by removing the hair. No prob's like this since and mileage has improved significantly. John

Rusty, firstly my apologies for referring to you as Randy, the grey hairs must have gotten in the way (again). I've corrected it in my post.

I've read that article and now have a better understanding of the Vitameter and still like the concept, although how practical it would be on a 374 is a moot point. I've also noted the adverse comments about WI such as rusting, and I'm thinking this potentially is the most concerning aspect of the technology. However, I've looked around the internet and haven't found anything really useful that explains and/or demonstrates the adverse effects of WI, other than failing to keep the reservoir topped-up. I'll keep on the case for awhile yet. Regards, John

This is proving to be a fascinating subject the more I read about it. I followed-up Rusty's advice about the Thomson Vitameter and there's not much on the internet, although what I did find suggested a pretty clever concept. From what I can gather, the water injection for it is still achieved through vacuum, but at the low vacuum end of the spectrum where it is more effective. If there was a pump involved I couldn't work out where it was.

The Thomson company was of the belief that use of the Vitameter would mean vehicles would only need what they termed special low-octane straight-run gasoline, which was said to be produced at considerably lower cost than cracked, blended or reformed fuel. I'm not sure exactly what all that means other than it would result in cheaper running costs.

Given the stated advantages of water injection and what looks like something relatively inexpensive to manufacture, I wonder why it didn't take off. Was it one of those things the petroleum industry killed-off? The main issue these days would be how to fit it to the carby - perhaps "T" into the distributor vacuum port. Also, I suppose another port could be machined into the carby base, but something like that is complicating things and might be better left to a specialist machinist. Anyway, I'm thinking I'll continue to investigate this some more for awhile yet. John

G'day men, thanks for the info. Now hopefully I can respond to most of the suggestions, but first our climate. Yes, I would call it a pretty dry climate, although we did get a lot of rain this and last winter, and it's still happening to a lesser extent. In Melbourne it rarely gets below 32F in winter and often exceeds 100F in summer, and we've just turned the corner from a few years of drought which resulted in our water catchments dropping to an overall average of around 30% full. We're now back up above 70%. Sadly, the water situation resulted in the previous state government investing in a large water desalination plant to supplement our water supply system, but due the the rainfall I mentioned it's been mothballed for now, although us residents still have to pay for it whether its used or not.

Back to the Patrician. When I rebuilt the A/C system nearly two years ago I had the radiator cleaned and checked and it came up OK. The fella agreed that it was a heavy duty unit but said that was in 1956 - it wouldn't be as good as a modern heavy duty radiator. At the same time I fitted the electric pusher fan but I'm going to have another look at that as maybe a bigger one with more blades might do a better job. I also fitted a new two way radiator cap to allow water recyling. When I said the water bottle was full, after cooling down most of the water would have been drawn back into the radiator. Which leaves the engine fan and I'm still on the lookout for a bigger capacity one. The problem I keep coming up against is finding one with a big enough hole to fit over the pump boss, and I haven't found one yet.

This vapour lock issue only occurs on rare occasions and from memory it's only happened after using the A/C on a hot day while driving on suburban stop start roads. The electric fuel pump seems to get over the problem but I only normally use it to prime the carby before starting after the car has been sitting for awhile. It must be something to do with the fuel vapourising to or from the mechanical pump on a hot day. By the way, I also rebuilt the mechanical fuel pump about the same time as I did the A/C. I'm pretty sure the motor is not overheating but next hot day we get, and we'll be getting them pretty soon, I'll take her out for a run with the A/C on, get her warmed up and then use a digital infra red thermometer to measure temp at various sites.

As far as the water injection is concerned, it's certainly got me interested and I'll still keep digging to find out more, although I'm in no hurry to do anything about it. I'll be concentrating on the normal cooling fundamentals first.

Thanks once again, John

I'm not sure if this is a controversial topic or not but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with water injection.

As background, the reason I ask is that driving the Patrician home a few days ago, I experienced some vapour lock which was overcome by switching the electric fuel pump on. It had been quite a warm day and I had the A/C switched on and experienced no prob's while on the highway, although she obviously got a bit hotter when later driving in suburban traffic. I still only have the standard 4 blade engine fan but have a factory A/C radiator installed. I have also fitted an electric pusher fan in front of the radiator which comes on automatically when the A/C is switched on, although I'm not sure how effective it is. The dash temp guage was still mid range but the radiator overflow bottle was pretty full when we got home.

Now, while swanning around the internet looking at cooling issues and solutions, I came across the concept of water injection which is said to internally assist the engine to run cooler. It apparently has other attributes too, including decoking the combustion chambers and countering any tendency for detonation. Also, because of this it effectively allows timing to be advanced a little more to further improve combustion and power generation, and thereby improve mileage as less pedal is needed.

I came across different ideas about doing this, from utilising the distributor vac port to suck water vapour in to using an electric pump to force it in. The first relies on manifold vacuum which I guess would be less effective at speed, and the other seems a little more complicated as it needs some sort of throttle control to vary the flow according to need. I realise I can look at the fan issues and maybe whether a radiator shroud might be an option. Even so, if the benefits of water injection are as reported, specifically cooler running, cleaner engine and detonation elimination, it may be something worthy of further investigation. Cheers, John

It's about time for an interim update on the new brakes. She's done about 150 miles now, although about 75% was highway so not much braking required. Also I can still smell the brakes after driving which suggests we're still bedding-in. Anyway, I can confidently report that we have much better braking than before so it was definitely the right move to take. Whether this is due to the woven linings or the rears helping out, or both, I'm not entirely sure but I reckon it's a combination of both. Also, I've always been of the view that my reco'ed BTV didn't provide enough boost, and still think that, but it's much easier to live with now.

The only hassle I've had was a pull to the left today during an unexpected sudden stop. I might back the left adjuster off a couple of clicks to see if that helps. By the way, we've been on two Club runs and I've readjusted the brakes after each, so I'm guessing it will be necessary again after the bedding-in process. Cheers, John

Thanks guys. My concern was all about whether the air would travel back up the tube to the remote reservoir. In other words, whether the brake fluid higher up would allow the air bubbles to rise and pass through. If this is what happens then I'm seriously going to look at installing a system. I also prefer Riki's idea of having a clear reservoir to check, and I know Girling ones are available over here for around $30. Tubing wont be a problem so that only leaves the master cap to worry about. I don't want to impose but Riki's offer is looking good. What I'll do first though is check with brake specialists over here to see if anything the right size is available to suit the purpose. Probably not but it might save me putting the pressure on Riki. I have a spare BTV needing reconditioning so I'll take the cap off that for a sample. Cheers, John

That is interesting and I'd like to know more about his system. What is niggling away in my mind is that if air remains in the master, how is it evacuated when fluid is poured into the remote res. I'm thinking that if there is air in the lines, it's removed by bleeding. Is this what happens with the remote system, and if so how is it setup to enable this? Cheers, JP

Thanks Riki, I'm not in a hurry and I'd like a bit more info before going further. It's probably better to talk about it in the topic where you first mentioned making-up the reservoir caps.

Now, a bit more info on the woven linings I've fitted to the old girl. I contacted the brake shop that did the work to get the facts a bit straighter and to avoid talking too much BS about them. Essentially, these woven linings use a newer non-asbestos type material that is designed to give better braking with less heat, and require less pedal pressure as a consequence. Exactly what I was looking for!

I was told the material has a better (higher?) coefficient of heat which enables it to run cooler and bite harder than the other stuff. It has a metal fibre embeded within, which I think is non-ferrous, and will perform best after about 200 miles of bedding-in. The material is manufactured in Brazil, but I don't know any more about that. I'll be taking things easy during the bedding-in period and I'll report back about how they're performing after this.

By the way, I did adjust the rears using Ross's method, and even lubed the pivot point and backing plate shoulders to help things move more easily. I must admit I hadn't thought of using the hand brake pull as a method of determining when to readjust. Great idea Ross! Cheers, John

I just noticed RIKI's project in the BTV "Treadle Lightly" topic where he machines a new cap for the master. Is this what we have to do and can something like this be bought over the counter as it would be impractical sending a lump of brass over to the US. Cheers, John