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Re: Bearing check
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Oil pan re-installed with black RTV at each 'corner'. Started it up and front seal seems to be holding. Some drips from the back down the side of the flywheel cover but will let it play out for a bit. Oddly, had an oil leak from the fuel pump mounting interface. Next step is to replace the modern (~7psi) fuel pump and added regulator with an original carter fuel pump that I sourced from Mike Dulinksi and just had rebuilt by Terrill.

Car started up just fine but miss at idle and higher rpms is apparent again. ALso still fighting with thermal spring for heat riser valve. New one from Max didnt solve it. When it heats up it relaxes a little but then the valve starts bouncing and never fully opens.

Noticed a lot of 'vapor' from the crankcase vent tube. Not sure why there would be so much. Also found that if I remove the oil filler cap the vapor goes away, then returns when I put the cap back on. seems odd.

Here is a video of the vapor

https://youtu.be/yRB7Nfc7xHo

Posted on: 1/10 7:05:35
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Bearing check
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
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Posts: 143
Since i had the steering mostly apart to send control valve to Rockauto/Lares, and was pulling the oil pan to try to stop the front/back leaks, I figured I would pull a few bearing caps to see what kind of wear I'm getting.

Recall that when I first put this engine together last Aug '18, I left a paper towel in the engine and it plugged up a lot of the oil pump inlet screen. Oil starvation had to have happened so at that time, I pulled each cap took some pictures,then blew air through etc to ensure no remnants.

As an example, here is a then/now picture of rod bearing cap #2. A few more scratches then before plus and signs of what I would consider contamination. Also some end wear/wipe at the edge of the bearing, which really surprised me.
The scratches across the width don't make sense so wondering if I some how did that while installing/removing the cap.

Also a picture of Main cap #3.

I also sent an oil sample to Blackstone (attached). One of their findings was contamination. To date, I have run all the time with the oil bath filter removed. Having the carb fully accessible has made tuning idle mixture, rpm, and choke so much easier. But now thinking that is where the dust/dirt is coming from that is causing this bearing wear.
Any other thoughts from this sample? It is the first one so will need to see what the trend will be.

Part of me thinks that I should take this opportunity to replace the rod and main bearings with the crank in place and start anew. Doesn't seem that hard from videos (even the manual talks about using a cotter pin to remove/install new main bearing) and at this point doubt the crank journals have had much wear to worry about.
Other part of me thinks I can do that at any time and should put it all together over the holidays so I can drive this thing and get some real miles on it to see how it performs.

Attach file:



jpg  rod bearing 2 Aug 18.jpg (252.51 KB)
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jpg  rod bearing 2_a Dec 19.jpg (274.61 KB)
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jpg  rod bearing 2 end wipe.jpg (289.76 KB)
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jpg  3 main bearing end wipe.jpg (348.02 KB)
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pdf 55 PATRICIAN-191117 Oil analysis_R_Redacted.pdf Size: 12.57 KB; Hits: 3

Posted on: 12/17 19:59:00
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oil pan gasket comparison
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2016/3/1 6:56
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Posts: 143
I dropped my oil pan to try to stop leaks I have at front and at back. (plus checking on journal bearing wear, more on that in a later post). Looks like it leaks (front and back) where the cork end strips meet with the flat side gaskets. Tried some black RTV during assembly at those locations, but get persistent drip.

Thought I would need to replace the gasket so ordered 2 new ones. For my future reference (and maybe it helps someone else), here is a comparison of three oil pan gaskets.

I had 1 from when I ordered a complete engine gasket kit from Max a couple of years ago. It is really thin and seemed too thin so I just ordered another one. You can see the part number of the new, thicker one ends in "s".

I also ordered a Best 24040 gasket from another vendor. It is the compressed, fiber paper variety as compared to the cork type from Max. Here is a picture of the 3 stacked up for comparison. The newest Max one is the thickest (on top), old Max one in the middle, and Best on the bottom (gray)

When I installed the existing gasket, I used Permatex High tack gasket sealant on the block side and nothing on the pan side. The pan came off easily and the gaskets (2 sides, and front and back thick cork) stayed in place on the block.
There is no evidence of any oil leaking on the side gaskets, just where the side gasket & tabs meet the end pieces (and remnants of black RTV). I'm thinking of just leaving the gaskets in place, cleaning out the old RTV, and adding a few more dabs at the corners (and re-checking the pan bolt hole areas for any deformation).

That's about what I did last time and it didn't work great so I don't know why I think I will get a different outcome this time. But it seems like that should work maybe I let the RTV dry too long before assembly. I've looked through many posts on this site and there is variation as to what to do with those side tabs etc.

Hoping I'll get a better result this time since the cork is already in place. I'm planning on adding RTV dabs at the 4 corners, getting the pan bolts just barely snug, letting RTV set for a tad, then torquing to spec.

we will see...

Attach file:



jpg  max oil pan gasket compare.jpg (602.66 KB)
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jpg  oil pan gasket compare.jpg (342.14 KB)
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jpg  oil pan gasket as installed.jpg (779.96 KB)
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jpg  rear oil pan gasket installed.jpg (805.23 KB)
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Posted on: 12/7 15:33:41
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Re: Exhaust Manifold Heat Riser Spring
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2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Thanks Ross. If that is the case, then the one I have on my car must not be the original. The slit was most definitely not all the way through. But it is now. I took a hacksaw and cut through it to split it.

A new one from Max has only a partial slit, but more interestingly, doesn't have the same spring they sent me (less turns, but maybe it is an old pic).

https://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.d ... 1e~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000022E#



I'm going to try mine and see if this works.

thanks

Attach file:



jpg  heat riser shaft split.jpg (560.46 KB)
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jpg  heat riser with new spring.jpg (424.60 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/11/23 16:33
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Steering Control valve rebuild
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2016/3/1 6:56
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Posts: 143
I bought a kit from Max to rebuild the Bendix control valve assembly. Seemed to go okay, but could never stop it from leaking where the control valve assembly meets the main section. So used RockAuto's rebuild service with Lares. Rockauto received in on a Thursday and shipped it back to me the following Tuesday! You can see they replaced the original metal sleeve seal around the ball stud with one that has a rubber gasket around it. I'll install it soon to see if it works better, but it looks nice. Cost about $225 with tax and shipping.

Attach file:



jpg  rebuilt steering control valve.jpg (616.47 KB)
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jpg  rebuilt steering control valve_2.jpg (535.93 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/11/22 17:37
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Re: Exhaust Manifold Heat Riser Spring
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From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
I do notice a difference in time for the engine to warm up and run smoothly when I wire the valve closed and then open it once the carb choke plate fully opens. So I'd like to get this back to original.

I bought a new spring from Max for $35. It is quite a bit different than the 'generic' one I bought for less than half the price. Question for those that have played with these before: The 'tang' in the center ofthe spring is very long compared to the shallow slit in the heat riser shaft. I hate to butcher something I just spent $35 on, but it looks like I need to snip this tang down so it will go into the slot? I'm debating cutting the shaft all the way through to make this easier, but wondering if others have had a go at this and have some advice.

thanks

Attach file:



jpg  heat riser spring.jpg (546.63 KB)
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jpg  heat riser spring 2.jpg (503.63 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/11/22 16:43
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Exhaust Manifold Heat Riser Spring
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2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Folks,
I replaced a very distorted thermostatic spring with a "universal" one from Hagen. I twisted it around (counterclockwise) to bend it in place so that the valve was barely closed when cold with the spring just contacting the post. Upon heating up, the valve opens a little but not nearly enough. While the engine was warm, I used my heat gun from ~6" away and the spring relaxed and the valve fully opened. Seems like the spring is too strong or not enough heat is getting to the spring for it to work properly.

Is there some other way to 'prep' the universal spring to work? Or would a $35 spring from Max (part # 440753) work without having to play around with it???

thanks
-Bob



(unrelated, but I want to replace the Brake vacuum check valve at the carb (part 440822). Max has them for $40 but haven't found another, cheaper source. Have you?)

Posted on: 2019/11/5 19:45
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Re: Carb/Intake Gasket seal
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
UPDATE:

I used the approach suggested by Dave and took a long file and dressed that corner. I was careful to always maintain corner to corner contact, which helped make it much flatter. When I started, the file didn't make any marks in the middle of the manifold. So I continued, swapping corners, until all of the manifold was lightly touched.

Also, and this may be the bigger contributor, I switched gaskets. The gasket that came with it from Daytona was a relatively thin, compressed paper gasket. I replaced that with one that came in the engine rebuild kits that is a little thicker and more 'fibrous'

In addition, I bought a fuel pressure regulator and dialed down the pressure from about 7psi to ~5 psi as per Daytona's strong insistence that this is the major problem. The first pic shows this plumbed in. No one else on this forum talks about this, so thinking that the Carquest/Airtex #6866 fuel pump (from the Parts X-Ref section) works but is too high in pressure to allow the engine to run smoothly. It is rated at 6psi-7.5psi. Anyone else have a similar issue??

End result is that the engine runs much more smoothly. I am able to get it to idle around ~450rpm. The noticeable, random miss (shudder) is still there but significantly reduced in magnitude.

The picture shows the rpm along with vacuum gauge (connected to the carb rear vac source normally used for the check valve and connection to vacuum cylinder and brakes).

~17in vac seems low to me for a rebuilt engine. I adjusted the 2 idle mixture screws to maximize vacuum. Not sure what else to do so planning on putting the front clip back on and driving it for a while.

Thanks again to all for the suggestions!!

Attach file:



jpg  engine with fuel regulator.jpg (613.43 KB)
120663_5dbf3dd55a6d0.jpg 2048X1536 px

jpg  tach vac after manifold dressing.jpg (201.82 KB)
120663_5dbf3de00914a.jpg 2048X1536 px

Posted on: 2019/11/3 12:57
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Re: Carb/Intake Gasket seal
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
I did check the carb throttle body/base plate with a straight edge both across each side and diagonally (corner to corner). Even with shining a light through the back it seems very flat to me.

I did the same with the mounting surface of the intake manifold. Mostly the same story, but as you can see in the picture there is a gap close to the forward, driver-side stud. It looks like the metal outside of the stud is slightly raised leaving a gap of about 0.009". When i got the car the 2 studs on the driver side would come out as the nut was rusted on the stud. Maybe years of torquing or overtorquing somehow distorted that corner?

I'm try to convince myself that even with a paper gasket thicker than 0.009", torquing down the base plate to the intake in this condition will cause the base plate to warp enough to allow air to come in. I squirted a lot a starter fluid around and when I hit the base plate to main body gasket (in the front) rpm would rise ~150rpm. Same thing if I squirted the air horn to main body gasket near the accel pump area: rpm rise.

Any easy way to deal with this? Multiple gaskets? Finding a machine shop that can make the manifold flat as flat can be sounds like the right answer, but i have a hard time finding those places

thanks
Bob

Attach file:



jpg  straight edge on intake manifold.jpg (393.57 KB)
120663_5d954f27926a4.jpg 2048X1536 px

Posted on: 2019/10/2 18:33
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Carb/Intake Gasket seal
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Hi,
Been fighting an idle and high rpm miss for a while (see project blog):
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... ASC&type=&mode=0&start=70

I've been trying everything to isolate with no luck. last week, I removed the intake manifold (with carb attached) and now that I reinstalled it, it runs even worse and won't idle below 700rpm. Very much a vacuum leak. Took some starter fluid and was spraying around the carb/manifold interface. When I squirted the driver side throttle shaft area, the rpm picked up. Due to the linkages, I can't tell if the rpm changed when the fluid hit the throttle shafts or the carb/manifold interface. Carb was rebuilt by Daytona so I am assuming they would have checked a need to re-sleeve the throttle shaft bores.

I pulled the carb off and as you can see from the attached photo, there is no indent in the gasket from the manifold side on the driver side, but a noticeable one on the passenger side. This makes we want to believe this is the source of the vacuum leak. I checked the carb nuts torque several times so I know each 4 nuts were the same. Should I just crank harder on the driver side? Or is there some RTV type material I could use and trust? I'm hesitant to use anything that fuel may deteriorate and end up in the engine.

I've had a miss since before I tore my engine apart, not sure this is related. Anyone have experience with these intake manifolds warping a little and need to be machined? I guess it could be the carb face could be the culprit too and bending when I torque down the nuts.

thanks
-Bob

Attach file:



jpg  20190914_153208.jpg (677.72 KB)
120663_5d7d5608acca0.jpg 2048X1536 px

Posted on: 2019/9/14 14:10
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