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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#31
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

HH56 wrote:
I will start by posting a factory photo with a partial view of what Don is asking about. A good photo and approximate length of the bare unconnected lines would answer many questions on exactly how Packard rerouted the filter lines. Biggest question is did the supply line go in front of or behind the thermostat housing and where does it bend to clear or turn upward to get to the filter port.

Most engines have the filter on the left with a short supply line that runs straight back and up but when the factory AC compressor is mounted the oil filter moves from the side of the left head on the engine to the right side of engine and is positioned forward and lower than the original location. It bolts onto the end of the compressor bracket. The question is the shape and where the new longer oil supply line is routed from the oil supply port on the front of the left head to get to the new input fitting location on the rear side of the filter canister. The return line also is different and looks to be just a short curved piece that goes into a 90 degree fitting on top of the block but if you have photos of that one as well it would help answer future questions.



Thank you for clearing that up. I was unaware of the filter location change between the Non-A/c and A/C cars.

When we finally got the car back in 2010 the engine was already removed with some specific A/C parts in the trunk. The Oil filter assembly was not among them. Ill keep that in the back of my mind when it comes to looking for the remaining engine parts in the Packard Shed. It could of stayed with the engine when it was removed back in the 90's, or the old man could of kept it when he got it back on the road. I dont know, I have to look.

thank you for making me aware of these differences!

Posted on: 2020/2/6 13:25
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#32
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
If possible, can you please show some photos of the longer of the two oil filter lines from different angles? I'm trying to determine if the new one I have has gotten a slight extra bend there or if it's supposed to be that way.


Hey PackardDon,

what oil filter lines are you talking about? If its lines on the engine, I currently dont have the engine assembled. But if its something on the firewall or fenders, I may have some pictures.

Posted on: 2020/2/6 7:19
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#33
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


This past weekend I was in town and got some work done between the other car work that was on the list to complete. Got power seat and lock relays removed, got the solenoids for the suspension removed, got the A/C lines removed, gas pedal and linkage removed and some other stuff off of the passenger fender.

Slowly moving along!

Posted on: 2020/2/4 14:33
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Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#34
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


So I have been looking on this site on the BTV conversion and I see people going to the vacuum booster that takes up the drivers side fresh air vent. In my case I would rather not use that method, the car in question is an A/C car.

I have seen people use vacuum boosters and a couple people use a hydro boost system, I think someone used it from a 71-72 Lincoln.

I was looking at the 56 Patrician this past weekend and it would appear if the booster/master cylinder assembly was moved outboard of the column there would be a decent amount of room ahead. This would require a bell crank that would connect the stock pedal to the back of the booster/master cylinder. With that bell crank a pedal ratio could be factored in. I am not to sure if it would be the optimal 4:1 ratio, but something is better than nothing. The car I was thinking of robbing these parts out of was a 96-98 or 03-04 SVT Mustang. Another benefit of this is that all the mount points/brackets would be on the frame rail, so the force gets transferred to the thicker metal there as opposed to the firewall.

I do understand if your power steering pump goes out, line bursts or the car stalls you loose your power assisted option. But if your car stalls you would still loose the power assist on a vacuum boosted car.

Thoughts?

Posted on: 2020/2/3 10:46
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#35
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
You can easily tell a 1955 (Packard-built) from a 1956 (Dana built) rear axle by simple visual observation. The Dana unit has a stamped steel rear cover plate retained by threaded capscrews, the Packard unit does not have a removable rear cover, you pull the entire pumpkin from the forward side to access the internals.

Or just pull a rear wheel cover, 56 has lug nuts on studs attached to the axle flange, 55 has lug bolts threaded into the brake drum.




Thank you for that Owen_Dyneto. After I posted I realized the packard rear end had to have the drum pulled off after a nut was removed from the axle shaft. Well I have pictures showing the wheel without that center nut. So clearly not a 55 rear end. Never knew the 55 was the banjo style rear end!

thank you for being patient with me on this, still learning.

Posted on: 2020/1/29 15:39
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#36
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
I think you are incorrectly calculating the rear axle ratio from the # of turns of the shaft versus the road wheel. Driveshaft turns to produce 1 road wheel revolution must be multiplied by 2 to give the differential ratio. And of course when making the measurement the other road wheel needs to held still or on the pavement.

Another thing on the steering you might check, Packards with power steering had different (faster) ratio steering gear boxes than those in cars with manual steering. The different ratios are all given in the specifications in the 1956 Service Counselors. For example in the 1956 Patrician, the power steering gear box was 16.4/1, in the manual steering 22.3/1.



Huh... I thought you only did the multiplication factor when dealing with an open rear end... but if that is the case it would be either the 3.54, 3.9 (55 gear) or 4.09. Which is good, so long as it is not a 55 rear due to needing a puller to get the drum off, correct? So I need to take a rear wheel off and see what style rear end I have. On a 56 I should just be able to slide the drum off without a puller correct?

and good to know about the steering box! dang... even more to think about now. Would these idle/pitman arms and steering box have part numbers marked on them for me to figure out what I have?

Posted on: 2020/1/29 11:13
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#37
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
Quote:
The car appears to have been converted to manual steering. The manual cross link is there, but the power steering pump is tied off to the side. So haven't decided if I will leave it manual, or put the power back in (the power cross link is in the Packard Shed).


If the car originally had power steering and you decide to keep the non-power, be sure that the pitman and idler arms are for the non-power steering cars. I can't speak specifically for the V8 models but at least in 1952 the power steering arms were longer and gave a slightly tighter steering radius when so equipped but if used on a car without power, the wheel will be much harder to turn.


That is good to know!! Ill have to check the part manual to see if there is indeed a different number between the two. Ill have to check that out.



Owen_Dyneto
I was aware of the two gear sets you mentioned. However, given that I barely got two turns out of the drive shaft after one revolution of the wheel I figured it would be the lowest of the gear sets and I would of gotten closer to 3 turns of the driveshaft for the 3.31 or 3.07

Posted on: 2020/1/29 8:04
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#38
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


After the inspection was done some disassembly was done by all, first was getting most of the interior out. The painted trim came out first, as well as the door cards and rear seat. All came out easily. The power bench seemed a little more involved to separate the seat from the track, so that will be saved for another day. But the floor looks good! And is covered in under coating. Which is good, less painting and sound deadening I have to install.
I got the rear bumper off and started to bag and tag some of the electrical components under the hood. I marked where the components came off the car, but I want to go back and mark the wires as well. Some components I knew what they were, others I had no clue, so next time I want the wiring diagram near me so I can accurately mark what they are.

There is a lot of work to be done... it is kind of overwhelming at times when looking at this through my timeline. Hope I can get it done when its needed by!

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Posted on: 2020/1/28 7:29
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#39
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


This past weekend I was able to make it to the family garage to do a further inspection of the Patrician. Thankfully I had help, which made the process go quicker as well as get into the disassembly phase:
Body: it shouldn't need much (see pictures below). The driver's side rocker looks great, the lower doors look great, the trunk lid looks great, the hood looks awesome. The lower side and eye lids on the fenders look great. The passenger fender does have more than its fair share of dents from I guess people leaning over it, so some metal repair there is needed. Not too big of a deal. Truck floor looks awesome. The underside just has surface rust in areas and a ton of under coating that is flaking off in places. So that means a lot of on your back work getting that stuff off for POR15. I would like to replace the rubber inserts on the body mounts, the rubber is shot. I would love to get the biscuits made out of aluminum (if anyone knows a source?).
The quarters appear to be okay. There is some dents here and there but no where near as bad as the passenger front fender. Above the wheel arch on the passenger side does look fishy. I don't know if there was a previous repair done that started to fail or just bad paint, but sanding the paint off completely is needed. Both quarters have had work done to them behind the wheels in the past (see the pictures). Not too sure if this was something the old man did or someone else did but it appears to be brazed in and not welded. Repair seems to be okay, would know more when I get the paint off.
The worst parts of the body is the passenger rocker (as I mentioned above). That has had work done on the inner and outer (see pictures). The inside had a piece riveted in and not too sure what is hiding under the body filler. But there was a couple of holes noticed. So there is patch work that is needed.

Trim: it would appear that I have everything. More digging is required obviously, but not the most pressing issue at the moment.

Interior: As mentioned above, it appears to be in okay shape. Some of the mole skin is thinning out in areas that will need addressed. Besides the much needed deep clean, overall, its great!

Engine bay: there is a lot of things missing in there, obviously haha. But again I was told I have everything. The car appears to have been converted to manual steering. The manual cross link is there, but the power steering pump is tied off to the side. So haven't decided if I will leave it manual, or put the power back in (the power cross link is in the Packard Shed). I located the fly wheel, pressure plate and clutch for it. The clutch looks brand new! However the clutch is only a 10"... I was informed the clippers got the 10" and the Packards got the 11", but I was also told you couldn't get a Packard with the 3 speed manual. So not too sure what to do there.
The trans does have the over drive on it, and it does appear to have 2 sets of drain/fill plugs, one set for the main transmission and one for the overdrive unit? Am I understanding that correctly? The Trans and OD tail shaft have their own "reservoirs" of gear lube?

Rear End: this probably has to be the most concerning part of the investigation. I got the back end up on jacks and made a mark on the rear wheel and drive shaft. I rotated the wheel one rotation and the drive shaft barely got two revolutions, which tells me the rear end has not been converted to the different gearing as I was lead to believe (if I did that test right). So the lowest gear according to the service manual would be 2.87's where the 3.54 and 4.09s were had with the manual. So if I am correct, that will need to be addressed. Is removing the rear axle with the torsion ride suspension difficult? The only tag on the housing is one that has a "T", not one that listed the ring and pinion gear tooth count (like the service manual says). So if I want to indeed be sure, that inspection cover needs to come off.

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Posted on: 2020/1/28 7:27
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#40
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Thanks all for the support!! I quite havent figured out how to quote multiple posts with in one reply, so Ill just do this manually:

r1lark - Ill be posting updates when movement on the car happens. In the next couple months I am going to have a family friend come over and help me evaluate the vehicle and see what all it really needs. In the mean time I am going to reach out to kanter and some restoration shops to see what all would need to be done to the suspension to make sure it operates as it should.

Ross - thats what I exactly plan to do. take the trim that was sitting in the car, lay it around it to see what it doesnt have, then going up into the "Packard Shed" (the old man's storage shed that houses all spare parts for the old cars) and see what I can find. Sometimes the gratification of searching and finding the part always adds enjoyment of a task completed. I figured the glass removal and those trim strips would turn my hair grey...

I did look up the old videos on youtube and watched the 25,000 mile run around the track in the 55 Patrician back in the day. All those videos got me thinking that the old mans 56 Caribbean never really had the suspension tuned properly, because that car never acted/reacted like the cars in the videos. So I may take you up on inspecting your 56 400 to give me an idea on what to work towards. Right now the Caribbean is out getting an engine swap and is currently up on a lift. I was checking out the underside and everything appears to be fairly straight forward. so this should be a fun undertaking.


58L8134 - are you sure that is a 55 Patrician in Greenville? It looks like it has the 55 front fenders, but it has the reynolds wrap that goes all the way down the quarter panel. I was under the impression the 55's reynolds wrap stops at the rear door? I could be wrong... However, I wouldnt be opposed to getting a 352. Reason being as the information I could find suggested really the only major differences between the 352 and 374 block was the bore. So if I could get a 352 block, bore it out to the 374 dimensions I would essentially have "perfect" bores as opposed to 60 year old cylinder bores that who knows what happened to them.


Ozstatman - Ill have to check the data plate information and add it to that list, if I havent already

Posted on: 2019/12/16 9:58
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