As it seems that your prime concern is that of reliability have you considered using a later Packard Straight 8 - with overdrive? There is a U-Tube posting featuring a 1951 Packard Patrician that, except for a custom designed and made A/C unit, is stone stock with it's 327 9 main bearing straight eight coupled to it's original Ultramatic. It has completed a trip from LA to Virginia via the Southern Route and back to LA via the Northern route which includes driving over the Rocky Mountains - a trip of over 7,000 miles without so much as a burp from the engine or the Ultramatic. If that's not reliability, I don't know what is.

I also think some of what you're doing is getting lost in the uproar. No where did I see that you were chopping the top, using a Mustang rear and Mustang II front suspension and steering and replacing the interior with something from "Karl's Krazy Kabin Kustoms". If I'm reading that right, the only thing you'll be changing is the engine, transmission and by necessity, the drive line. While no doubts cuts will have to be made to accommodate the new engine and transmission I haven't heard anything that would prevent a return to original by a subsequent owner.

While I absolutely would rather you keep it all original or at worst using a later Packard 8, I think you are to be commended for doing a very limited change and, more importantly, committing to keeping the rest of the car as it was originally designed.

Jim

Thanks Stan, I'll keep them in mind when my new (to me) Patrician arrives.

Quote:

Hi Stan, I may be looking for some plating as it looks like another '51 is coming my way. A Patrician this time. I have always used Oregon Plating here in Portland but I was wondering who gave you that quote.

I am going through the exact same thing with my '51 200 Deluxe, 327 with hydraulic lifters as you. Same noises same trouble isolating the noises, the whole 9 yards. What I am doing is pulling the head and removing all the lifters and cleaning them by taking them apart and washing in clean solvent. I found about three that were stuck and after washing seemed to work as they should. There is one exception that has the lifter body stuck in the tappet. I'm letting that go for know. One thing I should know is if there is noise after I close it all back up, I'll know who the guilty parties are. It doesn't seem to take much to mess these up. On the other hand I'm amazed that these engines will still run with so many things wrong.

Mine too set for a long time before being re-started by the couple I bought it from. I'm becoming convinced that the only thing to do with these engines, especially with modern gas - is if they have sat for any length of time, the valve covers should be pulled and all valves and lifters checked to see if they move correctly before ever attempting to start the engine. I know that's what I'm going to do.

Just my

I left them my FSM and I know that they joined this group when the started on the car. As to the specifics of your question, I really don't know. I know that the owner of the shop is old enough to be familiar with I-8's & flat heads. The rest of the crew had never seen one. That was changed when another long time customer of his came in, saw the Packard, and brought his 1926 Cadillac in for work.

I saw and read about the procedure in the link that Wesley posted but I really don't know if they did or not. I suspect Owen (the owner) knew about it. I'll have to ask.

Wesley and O_D my thanks to you both once again. You've been great.

As for the stuck lifter, I think your suggestion, Wesley, is exactly what I'll do. If I was going to drive cross-county, it would be a different story but for the little driving I do and since I know what it going on I just don't see the need. I'm reminded of what General Allenby in the movie "Lawrence of Arabia" said when the British entered Bagdad in WWI. When he was told of a situation and that they "just couldn't do nothing", General Alenby said "Why not?" "It's usually best".

The plunger in the stuck lifter can be pushed all the way to the bottom with effort and rebounds nicely when pressure is removed. And if it "ticks" I'll know what's ticking and why - which is more than I did before.

Thank you again,

Jim

As far as the history of the car goes, I know that it set for a number of years before being towed in to a repair shop which was told to "Make it run." It was clacking pretty loud when I bought it so I had it towed to my mechanic who, among other things, did a valve job on it. When they were done it was still "tapping" but not as loud. Sometimes when being driven for an extended length of time, it does get quieter.

As far as the two troublesome lifters go I can offer this about the loose one. While it may have been oil starved in the past, it certainly isn't now. When I pulled it out, it had an almost uniform coating of oil from top to bottom.

As for the stuck one, aside from being stuck, it seems to be working just fine and although I only have useful hearing in one ear (too many Discos and other assorted night life in the '70s), I don't think that one was making any noise. Even with the stethoscope I think it was pretty quiet. Not so one 2 valves down.

So what would be the danger or downside of just putting it back together and see, or should I say hear, if there is any difference?

And does anyone have any favorite "tricks" or "Chilton Time Saver" tips about putting the keepers back on the valves?

Thanks Wesley and everyone for your help.

A service station owner I knew by the name of John Wright taught me most of what I know about engines. He was one of those men who could listen to a car pull into the station and diagnose any problem the engine had by the time the driver had reached the pump and shut the engine down. And he diagnosed the engine correctly!

He once told me that it was senseless to set timing by the factory spec on old cars. The reason he gave had to do with the harmonic balancer, being part rubber, shifting over time. I may have not got the rubber part right, and may not apply to Packards, but the upshot is that the best way to time an engine in an old car is by ear. He said when it's right, regardless of what the pointer is pointing to, you'll hear it and feel it and know that the engine is happy.

For what it's worth.

My thanks once again to JD & O_D for clearing that up. I think I'll try the expansion nut idea in the other thread and a little heat (I've got a paint stripper gun that puts out plenty of heat) and see if I can get the lifter body out. However, I'm concerned that if I get too crazy and really score up the interior of the lifter body in a futile attempt to remove it I'll lose the option of just stuffing the plunger back in, re-install the rest of the now clean lifters, sew the patient back up and cross my fingers. I'ts too close to the end of the season to pull a major operation. Any thoughts on that?

Regardless, I will, after making sure all the valves are moving correctly, see about getting my spare 288 running and if it runs quiet and smoke free and the 327 in my running '51 is still noisy, I'll at least have the option of an engine swap

I just don't want to make the problem worse than it was before I started as the engine really ran well, had plenty of power and no oil consumption in evidence.

One last question. What would be the cause of the one lifter that appeared to be loose in the tappet. before I removed it, I could move the complete lifter assembly back and forth in the tappet bore like a loose tooth. Only one like that so I sense that ain't good. I just want to know how bad.

Again, my thanks to Wesley, O_D and JD in KC for helping me through this.

J.

Thank you O_D for your help with this mess.

As I mentioned in my response to Wesley's post, I knew the plunger and lifter body were not interchangeable but I had no idea that the plunger, body, and tappet or cam follower were all of a piece and could not be mix and matched. That does explain why I found that one lifter body slopping around inside the cam follower or tappet.

This has me more than a little concerned. If I did have to replace a lifter, it sounds like I would also have to replace the cam follower or trust to luck that the new lifter would not be too large or too small but just right when inserted into the tappet?

That could be a real challenge when doing a valve job or even a rebuild. I can see I should have started this earlier in the Summer, but that's just not the way my life is working these days.

But thank you once again O_D for your help and experience in this. I believe Wesley just buttoned everything back up and then replaced the "ticking" engine with the rebuilt engine that was original to the car While the original engine to this car is long gone (this is the engine with a blank pad) I do have an unmolested 288 for Automatic Transmissions that I could swap out. But it's an unknown and this engine is otherwise so good: no smoke, no leaks and the oil level on the dipstick never changes and when I had a mechanical oil pressure gauge mounted, the oil pressure zoomed up to 40 psi and didn't change until the engine was turned off.