You didn't mention whether the VN on the patent plate had a -5- inserted between the 2352 and the sequential #. If not, it's a 23rd series 1949 and if so, it's either a re-numbered 49 or a true 1950. But the best clue would be the Briggs body# tag applied by the bodybuilder (Briggs) who numbered the bodies sequentially as they were delivered to Packard; this tag is screwed to the cowl near the heater. Briggs delivered the bodies in small batches to Packard so that number should be within 20 or so of the patent plate number. If not, your car was almost certainly renumbered. Note that this doesn't necessarily apply to early 21st series cars.

West, if I implied in my response over on the AACA forum that the 1st edition of Kimes had a picture of the engine, pardon me, it was a picture of the car itself.

Reputedly the major problem encountered with the engine was torsional lag of the crankshaft between the foremost and last cylinders, but the implications for practical body space on a reasonable wheelbase must have been severe as well. Looking at the wear on tires in the picture of the engine, it would seem the car accumulated only a limited amount of mileage.

Neat little piece of Packard history, that one. And I think it also shows the influence Jesse Vincent had to spend the corporate coffers on such a unusual idea and one that must have seemed impractical, even at the time.

Hi Dan: I've not been very lucky about finding that slip at the gas tank vent; much more often but still not enough to satisfy is finding the build slip glued to the top of the glove box. And on a very few 51/54 cars we've found the build slip behind the rear seat cushion.

Some interesting things happened with the VN numbers in the 1948-50 run. Of course we know that over the 3 years there really were 4 distinct cars, a true 1948, a 1949 22nd series, a 1949 23rd series, and a 1950 23rd series. In order to avoid the inevitable discount for selling a "left over" when the new cars were identical, Packard dealers were able to send the VN tags back to Packard which issued new ones with the -9- or -5- inserted between the 4-digit body type number and the production sequence to make a left over 48 a 22nd series 49, and to make a left over 49 23rd series a 1950. Apparently on occasion the dealers got the plates reinstalled on the wrong vehicles, I have a friend with an Packard where the VN on the patent plate is about 40,000 numbers away front he vehicle number on the build slip.

Not aware of any use of Packard sheet metal by Mack or White; are you sure you're not thinking of the use of the Packard six (the 245 ci) engine by White in their small line of trucks after the war and up into the early 50s?

The great time to make comparisons of a side-by-side ZIS 110 and 41/42 180 would have been at the Centennial in 1999 where we would have had a solid week to do so. Perhaps the opportunity will present itself again some time.

I suggest that it's only speculation what Packard did with the body dies but they were of little value to them other than as scrap metal as the styling was dated even for 1941. I don't believe we even know if Briggs ever returned them to Packard when production ceased, most likely they went into the WW II scrap drives. If the Russians did obtain them, you'd think they would have used them but little if anything on the nose clip of the ZIS 110 appears to be directly produced from the Packard dies, though I suppose they could have been modified. Just by example, the hood panels, grille shell and front fenders show minor differences from the Packard parts, and the rear sheet metal is very different.

You seem to have a keen interest in this topic; there are quite a few articles (and photographs) on the ZIS 110 in various publications including The Packard Cormorant and perhaps you'd like to research it a bit yourself, and of course contacting the current owners and closely inspecting the cars could reveal new information. Any new information on them would be most interesting.

Are you sure this body is a limo? Please measure wheelbase and let us know. Your "thief-proof" number dates the body to 1953; your engine# (with one too many digits) is a 1953 Clipper DeLuxe and your VN tag is for a 1954 Clipper DeLuxe. The other numbers you mention (433528, 1 22 53 and 12 8 52) are casting numbers and dates which are consistent with 1953 production. However, none of these are consistent with a long wheelbase (149 inch) limo. Appears that you've got a mongrel, of which, unfortunately, there are far too many these days, resulting from folks who just can't resist buggering a car. How about a few pictures?

Postwar Packard production continued the Clipper type car only, 1942 was the last year for the older, traditional styling. Though distinctly different bodies and chassis, the engines, transmission, differentials, etc. were common to both the Clipper and the older traditional models.

I think perhaps you're unaware of the fact that Packard offered two distinctly different body styles in late 1941 and 1942; the first was the traditional Packard, basically a continuation of the 1940 model with updates, and the second a NEW Clipper style based on the design study by Dutch Darrin. The ZIS 110 was inspired by the traditional bodied 1941-2 Packard and not the Clipper. The 1942-7 Clipper is essentially the same as the 1941-42 Clipper with some trim changes, most noteably the number, width and spacing of the horizontal grille bars. The grille bars in the traditional bodied Packards of 1941-42 were horizontal and were moveable shutters in the senior line -- the grille bars in the Clippers were cast as a unit with the grille shell. The Clippers, in addition to a completely new body shell, rode on a new chassis which did away with Packard's Safe-T-Flex front supension in favor of a more GM-like approach.

Just commenting on the advice you've already gotten, a 1953 long-wheelbase VN would begin with 2650 for a limousine (divider window) or 2651 for an executive sedan (no divider window). Both are on the 149 inch wheelbase. The correct engine numbers for these chassis should be between L-60001 and L-607829. If the car has the 149 inch wheelbase, it can't be a Clipper model as suggested by your VN plate, but perhaps it's a 54; the body numbers would be 5450 and 5451 and the engine number range is M-600001 to M-605618. There may also be a body number tag on the cowl near the heater which would either be the Briggs sequence number (all except the lwb cars) or the Henney # (lwb cars) which should also clarify things. The large embossed number on the cowl is the "thief-proof" number and could be used to differentiate a 53 from a 54, but not much more as there is no remaining record of these, just members like myself who have been collecting them for decades and can sometimes decode them.

I suppose changing the VN tag on the door jam sometimes happens but it's generally illegal to tamper with a VN and when it's done with valuable collector cars its often the sign of a bogus car.

There are a fair number of these vehicles which have been around for careful examination by those who are interested and with a little travel budget. At one time there were at least 2 in the US, several in Scandanavia and Russia. I have a Packard buddy who is in frequent contact with owners in Scandanavia and he has obtained quite a bit of original Russian literature and blueprints for them. There was one at the Packard Centennial in 1999, owned by Sonny Abagnale of New Jersey at the time. Upon quick examination the engines look like a Packard 356, yet the block is just slightly longer so that stock 356 headgaskets don't fit. Many other differences as well. Of the parts I saw that looked like they might have come from the Packard parts bins were some of the dashboard plastic. Yes, while the front clip is decidely Packard inspired, the rear portions of the body are much more GM inspired.