Bob: Call Lee Bowen 417-276-5381 (Missouri).

Lee is a hobbyist - collector- small-time seller of Packard parts, and I know he has a 51 or 52 right now that he is parting out, but which has much of its stuff still on it.

Tell him I sent you - he just sold me a few small parts for mine.

Jim G

Ok everyone, this is REALLY wild, but worth at least analyzing.

Reviewing my objectives (your might be different):

- I need 12 volt power for the air conditioning clutch & for things like a 12 volt auxiliary power outlet

- I'd prefer to keep as much of the existing voltage infrastructure as possible unchanged, since changing would cost money for each item and professional labor for some(parts and/or labor for: overdrive solenoid, possibly overdrive relay, horn relay, horns (eventually), all bulbs, flasher, potentially Runtz resistors for some instruments,starter motor solenoid)

- I need new wiring anyway (old and fossilized) so new wiring harness will happen regardless of anyhting else

- I want an alternator with its built-in solid state regulation and high output even at idle (MUCH better output at and near idle than a generator).

Given these, how about this scenario:

- New wiring harness

- 12 volt alternator

- 12 volt AC clutch

- 12 volt auxiliary power outlet(s)

- "12/6" battery from Antique Auto Battery

Let me explain:

The existing battery tray holds a battery that is 6 3/4 " wide x 10 1/8" long x 8" high plus 1" posts("GROUP 24".

Antique Auto Battery (1-800-426-7580 "Delores" x7)has:
(All batteries are 8" high standard plus 1" for posts)
12/6 Group 24 $210 with CCA = 400 to 425 "on each side", OR, if you can provide a larger battery tray (there is room):
12" L x 6 ?" W 12/6 battery with CCA = 450 "on each side" for $210.

The way Delores describes it, a 12/6 battery has 1 ground terminal and 2 voltage terminals. One of the voltage terminals at end of the battery opposite the ground terminal provides 12 volts. The other voltage terminal is between the 3rd and 4th cells on the battery and provides 6 volts. Loads can be connected to the "6 volt side" or the "12 volt side". This is what Delores means when she says "x" cold cranking amps available " on each side".

Delores says I would need to run a 12 volt alternator with this, but could tap off 6 volts for most loads (including lights, instruments, radio, overdrive solenoid). The 12 volt terminal would be used for 12 volt loads, like the AC and the auxiliary power outlets, and the STARTER. The starter SOLENOID would stay on 6 volts, so would not need to be replaced. The 12 volt power to the starter should greatly improve starting (even though it is excellent even now on 6 volts).

The advantages of this scenario? Cost and simplicity. The costs and changes required are:

- New wiring harness (which I want anyway)

- 12 volt / 60 amp alternator with built-in slid state regulation replaces 6 volt generator AND regulator - about $205 plus shipping at worst, and the power output is 33% higher than the generator made at its PEAK

- 12/6 battery for $210

There is one potential flaw: I'm not sure that "one side" of the battery, which means 400 to 425 CCA, is enough to reliably start a 288 cubic inch inline 8 under adverse conditions. I'm not sure that I understood Delores properly when she told me about this "one side" stuff, and they are now closed for the day so I need to clarify tomorrow.

The Packard service manual describes the original STOCK battery only as "17 plate, 100 amp hour". I'm not sure of the CCA capacity of my current 6 volt aftermarket battery.

I need to investigate a bit more . . .

Jim G

Author, magazine editor, and restoration business owner Matt Joseph wrote a great book called "Collector Car Resotration Bible (KP Books, 2005). It was his second, improved edition. His first book was called "The Standard Guide to Automotive Restoration" (KP Books, 1992).

On page 150 of Collector Car Restoration Bible he says:

"The old electro-mechanical voltage regulators fitted to most cars from the 1930s into the 1970s were among the most finicky ever put on automobiles."

The rest of the pararagph that follows that sentence details some of the reasons and some of the consequences.

I want to avoid that unrecessary pain. :)

Jim G

BigKev: You don't need to keep the stock heater. The Old Air unit comes in TWO versions:
1. AC only
2. AC plus heat

I plan on getting the AC plus heat version.

See:
http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38000000&products_id=4321


Jim G

BigKev: Here you go:

Jim G

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I just checked the "Fifth Avenue Internet Garage", where Randy Rundle hangs out. Good news and bad on the 12 volt conversion of the Borg Warner OD system:

- The 6 volt relay, and thre kickdown switch, both work just fine with 12 volts

- The 6 volt SOLENOID however (this is the part attached to the actual overdrive)must be changed to a 12 volt. Two problems:

1. The cost is $265 plus shipping. The $265 cost makes Randy's 6-volt alternator, with output of 60 amps, 7.5 volts and featuring a solid state internal regulator and "DA" plug, very attractive to those wanting alternator reliability and output, who do not need air conditoning. Part # is 89502S - $205.00 each.


2. There were 2 "shaft lengths" used (measured from the mounting lfange to the tip of the metal shaft)on these solenoids. Randy ONLY has the one that is 1.25" in that dimension. This covers MOST cars that used the BW overdrive, but early 1950s Packards MIGHT be an exception. Does anyone know the length of the shaft on a 1952 Packard 200 with Borg Warner overdrive?

Jim G

BigKev: The cigar lighter solution is a great idea.

For the HVAC, I plan to use an "Old Air" brand (Fort Worth, Texas)underdash setup whose panel shape is an almost perfect match for the instrument panel shape in my Packard. This modern retrofit system is of course 12 volt, and will make it unnecessary to butch the backide of my dash or to eliminate my glove compartment drawer.

Jim G

Bob1951: You reaction is typical and understandable, but that's exactly why I reiterated my reasons for the conversion near the end of my posting.

Getting that AC clutch activated is one of the 2 big deals.

The other is the darn generator / regulator setup:

1. I have seen in writing from experienced mechanics that this electro-mechanical setup with its voodoo "regulator adjustments" needed from time to time is the cause of the vast majority of unreliability issues with old cars. I can believe it. Have you read the section in the service manual on regulator adjustments? It's a joke. I'm absolutely certain that any Packard engineer alive today would have made the swap to an alternator in his personal Packard!

2. Even when working, there is no way a 45 amp generator is going to be sufficient for a car with real HVAC. Every time the AC kicks on, the headlights would dim, and you'd need to remember to turn the AC switch off before cranking the starter (to prevent the AC from trying to engage during cranking)! And, since the generator cut-in speed on my Packard is 920 rpm, and the car idles at 400 rpm, whenever you are idling, you are discharging the battery. If the AC is engaging and disengaging, and the blower is running and the lights are one, you are pulling power like crazy out of the battery. I don't need that aggravation!

Jim G

I asked before, but got not quite ALL the answers I think:

When I convert from 6 volt positive ground with generator to 12 volt negative ground with alternator on my 1952 200 Deluxe, I know:

- Obviously all bulbs need to go to 12 volt

- Need a 12 volt coil, and a ballast resistor, and hook the coil up with the negative side connected to the distributor

- Distributor itself is untouched

- I need to use a Runtz resistor to protect each instrument guage (fuel, temperature, clock)and the radio

- I can apply 12 volts to the 6 volt starter and it will live, but probably have a shorter life as a result

- 12 volt horn relay (is this really necessary for rare and short duration use?)

- I can apply 12 volts to the 6 volt horns, and they will live for at least a while, and then I can replace them :)

- The voltage reguator goes away along with the generator, since I have the alternator


But, what about:

- The starter motor solenoid

- The Borg Warner OD relay

- The Borg Warner OD solenoid

- Does the change in both voltage and polarity necessitate any changes to the "battery" light circuit?

- Does the change in both voltage and pol;arity necessitate any changes to the "oil pressure" light circuit?

- For safety, swap out the 6 volt cigar lighter to a 12 volt (so a guest or child does not accdientally start a fire when I am not looking)

- Anything else I haven't thought of?

I really don't want to convert, BUT:

1. My wiring needs replacmeent anyway (old & brittle)

2. A generator and voltage regulator that needs adjustment from time to time seem like a rather unreliable setup for long term torublefree motoring

3. I MUST add air conditioning - we get 100 degree highs all summer - well over 45 days over 100 so far this season, and this is my daily driver

Jim G

NAPA also has an "oil gun" that looks very much like a grease gun, except that:

- There is no "trigger" - you just push the pusher piston handle in by hand to eject the oil

- There is a plastic hose. One end attaches to the gun. The other is used for two purposes: (1) to suck oil out of its original container and (2) to squirt the oil into the transmission.

- Using this device, you can "push" any reasonably liquid fluid UP into a transmission or axle housing whose filler hole is too high to pour into.

It is all metal except the hose, and it works well. I just used it to refill my overdrive, manual transmission, and rear axle.

It is quite inexpensive as well.

Jim G