Hello Gentlemen

Thanks for the notice of a major Packard icon passing. I never personally knew or spoke with Bob Turnquist, though I should have to express my appreciation for his book. I bought my copy in the mid-sixties, as a teenager spend hours pouring over it. It was the first really authoritative writing available on Classic era Packards. I still quote information he imparted when discussing Packards.
He did so much directly and indirectly for the preservation of an important part of American automotive history. For that good work, Bob, just like Beverly Rae Kimes and Henry Austin Clark Jr. will always be remembered.

RIP Bob, you did good!

Steve

Hi

Although it looks very nice, that is neither a Packard produced boat-tail body nor even produced in the '30-'31 period. It has the hallmarks of a modified roadster created in the last 30-40 years. Notice the panels on the rear have little or no surface development, something that requires an experienced craftsman with an English wheel and panel beating experience to create. That nearly flat upper surface edged with chrome moulding is very crude compared what a real period body would have.

Just conjecture, I think the car was a roadster that had the rear of the body cut away at one time to become a commercial vehicle, now has been restored to it's current form.

The only Packard factory produced boat-tail bodies were those for the '30 734 Speedster Runabout. There are good pictures on this website to compare.

Is the car in the pictures a '31 840 model? What information is on the data plate? Please tell us more about it.

Steve

Hi

The Collectible Automobile article "Personal Profile of John Conde" explained in detail the meager of Nash with Packard, shortly including Hudson. After considering the results, the following is my email letter to Editor Biel.

RE: "Planning a Merger: The Packard-Nash Connection"

Dear Editor Biel

This sidebar was the first time I've read the details of a merger that has been mentioned by other sources. The complete Personality Profile is a fine piece with his insider insights.

As one of those who analyzes possible scenarios for ways that Packard could have survived, this option did not hold long term promise. The detailed descriptions of the Clippers/Statesmans and Patrician/Ambassadors can be seen as simply Packard models substituted for the Wasp/Statesman and Hornet/Ambassadors the market received in '55-'57. A good indication of the resulting market acceptance of the Nash-bodies Packards can be seen in Hudson sales for it's last three years.

The shortness of time throughout '54 would preclude creating appropriate-sized '55 cars with Packard specific styling. The idea of a 114" wheelbased Nash-bodied Clipper powered with a Ambassador SIX is more cuddling than what came later from South Bend. As for the Patrician, does one built on an Ambassador 121" wheelbase with Packard V-8 engine and transmission, but without the innovation of Torsion-Level suspension sound like a formula for a Packard to truly compete in the luxury market? I shutter to think of the '56-'57 Packard styling if it had been completed with the aesthetics of the '56-'57 Hudsons!

The only real salvation for Packard was the financing to build the all-new cars they had designed and engineered for 1957; built in their own Detriot facilities. Details of the program point to a product line as revolutionary as the '57 Chrysler Forward Look cars. Finally, both Packard and Studebaker would have been able to market cars that were truly competitive with the Big Three. When the financing was turned down, that was the signing of Packard's death certificate immediately. And ultimately for Studebaker, as they were condemned to rework poorly accepted cars repeatedly in an effort to compete.

Steve

Hi

There seems to be abundance of unrestored 22nd Series through 54th Series cars, especially junior models, scattered all over the country that turn up with regularity for sale on Ebay, Craigslists and other sources.

Unhappily, a goodly number of these cars are in quite rough condition, likely to never be restored, at best used as parts cars or at worse, just end up lost to scrap.

I wonder if a project to create a design faithful '40 or '41 Darrin victoria replica body designed to mount on a restored chassis from these cars would be a worthwhile to pursue?

The difference in wheelbase length of the 120" and 122" chassis versus the 127" would have to be accommodated, might be done by offering two different hood lengths dependent upon the chassis to receive the body.

This would make more affordable a drivable Packard Darrin, still allowing the person to experience the road qualities of a Packard, just wrapped in a luscious design.

Is there a market? Your thoughts?

Steve

Hi JW

Thanks for reading my diatribe, glad to have your response.

Since the 120 and 160 models continued in production, it made good sense to establish the Clipper as a separate series; for the public, an easy way to identify the new car.

The Clipper name was used initially to identify the car as a model series, much as Buick used Roadmaster or Chrysler did with New Yorker. So the Clipper was consistent with industry practice. The use of a model name such as Clipper would not detract from the Packard name itself. In the case of the '41 Clipper, the name also identified a specific body design.

Where the confusion develops is immediately for 1942, all series chassis from Six to 180 received bodies with the Clipper styling, diluting the identity of a Clipper with unique style of it's own as a separate model series. The status of the Clipper body design is then analogous to the GM Torpedo C body, a design to be used by various series within each make. This move likely was made in recognition of the great appeal of the new design and a tacit admission the sales appeal of the old body had run its course.

The Clipper name was evocative of the old romantic sailing ships off to exotic foreign lands. In the forties the Clipper name was also on trans-oceanic airlines of the day.

In order to insure the success of the new 120 in '35, the name Packard had to go on it. The financial success of those cars was so critical to the survival for the company no chances could be taken with the market appeal of the car. The Packard name alone sold many cars for them the first few years.

Whether Packard should have used a different make name on succeeding middle-priced cars is tough to answer. Trying to establish another make might have worked, Ford proved it was possible with the Mercury. Close association with Packard would be key to its success in any cases. A new make name as a product of Packard Motorcar Company, brought to market in the postwar years, could have established a volume medium priced car and allowed Packard to move back into the luxury market exclusively.

Thanks again for your interest and comments

Steve

Hi

Just a few more thoughts enlarging upon the subject:

With the 1940 One-Sixty, Packard finally got it almost right. The most popular body styles were powered with the great new 356 cu. in engine, competitive in size and horsepower with the Cadillac V8. Each of the popular body styles was priced on target to the Cadillac 62. Although a different type of car, the longer wheelbase models gave those considering a 60 Special an excellent alternative. Customer reasons to purchase a Packard 160 5-7 passenger sedan where somewhat different from the 60 Special where stylishness was a larger consideration than passenger capacity.

Why then did the sales of 160 models not exceed the Cadillac 62 and Special 60 for 1940? One factor is the sales momentum built by Cadillac since introducing the Series 60 in 1936. Just the potential replacement sales of the 13,715 Series 60 models sold in 1936 and 1937, a fifty percent trade-in would carry the base sales effort. Brand loyalty was important to all car makers, Packard had a large loyal customer base to draw from. Those loyal customers ready to trade-in their '36 Eights and '37 Super Eights, though purchasing in a higher price market initially, were no doubt pleased to spend less on their new 160, even if it seemed a less majestic car than the old one.

An additional blow to 160 sales was the appeal of the new GM Torpedo C body, putting Packard at a style disadvantage. As much as we like the Packard styling today, it has to be recognized that it looked out of fashion compared to the Series 62 Sedan. Folks had been seeing versions of that Packard body design since 1938, mostly in the form of Six/110/Eight/120.

If styling similarity to Senior models abetted sales of the Junior line up to this point, the subtle, detailed differences between the lines was lost on much of the public for 1940-41. No matter that Packard gave it updated frontal styling, it was still the same old overall design everyone was used to. The public was receptive to and even expected new styling on a two-three year cycle by this time. The yearly model changes to stimulate sales were having the desired affect. The excitement of seeing the new models every fall was now a cultural phenomenon.

If the sales for 1940 were a holding action, 1941 was a market rout. Packard offered a handsomely restyled 160, incorporating the updated coupe style trunk into the now forth model year old body. The prices were raised a little, still in the competitive range of the '40 Cadillacs, resulted in 3,525 units sold. Wily marketers, the new '41 Cadillacs carried trendsetting new styling and for the Series 62, a 12-14% drop in base price from '40. Even disregarding the LaSalle replacing Series 61, sales of 24,734 Series 62 Cadillacs has to be seen as a coup. Just icing on the cake are the 4,101 60 Specials sold.

Had the Clipper arrived in 1940 as a 160, would this outcome have been different? Interesting to ponder, it might have kept the competitive situation more evenly divided. GM and Cadillac resources certainly pressed Packard extremely hard to match the model and prices it offered. The brand loyal and those whose loyalty was to neither make beforehand voted with their dollars.

I'll be interested to read your reflections and comments on any of the ideas I've presented.

Steve

Hi

I'm with West on this one, that '34 12 LeBaron Sport Pheaton is right at the top of the list...

of course.... that list includes:

A '30 745 LeBaron convertible sedan
Any of the Dietrich Individual Customs with the V-windshield
The '34 Dietrich "Car of the Dome", one of those lovely sport sedans
A '40 Darrin Convertible Sedan, or the one-off Sport Sedan
A '41 LeBaron Sport Brougham.

.....too many to list, better stop...!

Steve

Hi Clipper47

Thanks for your kind endorsement. This is what happens when you study a subject for 40 years. The curiousity to find out all I could about the auto industry from the beginning through the 1960's, all the independent companies as well as their competitors hit me in the late '60's.

Now, having read and absorbed lots of good automotive history books, every issue of SIA and thousands of others, I think I have a pretty complete picture of what happened and, more importantly, why

Packard's struggle and demise has been of particular interest, as you can tell.

Steve

Hi

Some further comments in response to your fine insights and questions.

First, the situation at Cadillac: It's true Cadillac became a financial liability for GM as the Depression deepened and there were discussions whether to drop the make IF it could not be made a profitably viable contributor again. For GM to drop Cadillac would have violated Sloan's policy of "A Car for Every Purse and Purpose" Certainly, GM management recognized the Depression would abate, demand for luxury cars would revive, and dismissing their established Standard of the World would be a long term mistake.

Toward this objective of profitable viability for Cadillac, Nicholas Dreystadt replaced Lawrence Fisher as General Manager in June 1934. His charge was to reduce to one basic engine and rationalize the body & chassis shared with volume makes from the multiplicity of engines, bodies and chassis then built by Cadillac. He also brought unit cost discipline to a division that had never really had to consider it before. His job was much like that of the production people Packard brought in to make the 120 a reality.
Dreystad's first contribution was the '36 Series 60. He relentlessly rationalized the products all across the lines, as proof; compare the 1933 Cadillac & LaSalle lines to that of 1941. As the results show, their program was one of slow steady development of the 60 Series into a position of dominance in the price segment. He and other Cadillac managers were no doubt heartened in their efforts as they watched Packard ignore the $1,700 to $2,100 price segment in pursue of the Pontiac segment volume with the 115 Six.

The ability of luxury car buyers to use GMAC to finance their purchases was a brilliant move as well. The whole idea of limiting new car ownership to "persons of substance" might have assured only those truly financially able would have such a car, but that world was fading away quickly by the mid-'30's. Call it the democratization of the luxury car market, the old exclusive world of the rich was in disrepute by much of the population for having caused of the economic woes, no longer to be trusted as before. Any prosperous person should be able to enjoy a luxury car, regardless of whether he was "a person of substance".

On Buick 90: Harlow Curtice had revived Buick in general from its 1932-33 low, sought to make Roadmasters and Limiteds as desirable a luxury car as comparable Cadillacs. However fine the resultant cars were, this action violated Sloan's step structure for price and class, would not be allowed long term. GM management understood they needed only one luxury car at the top, not two.
Of those few Brunn customs, fine cars as they were, were still semi-custom modifications of the factory Limited bodies, itself shared with the Cadillac Series 67. The customs added luster to all Buicks, their primary purpose. In truth, a low production custom convertible in the style of the Lincoln Continental or Packard Darrin Victoria would have had more affect.

Motivation to build the Clipper might have come from the analyzing their market position after 1937. Selling 115,000 cars that year, realistic projections for unit sales by 1940 would be in the 150-200K unit range. With '37 as the benchmark, '38 sold at 48%, '39 at 36%, '40 would shape up to be 78%, '41, even after the Clipper introduction, just 59%. Management should have been scrambling to figure why their position in the market was so flat. Compared to major competitors, Buick and Chrysler, their results were just plain dismal.

The Clipper was Packard's hurried response to the GM Torpedo C body that became available with the 1940 models. It was offered from Pontiac through Cadillac, became among their best selling models. The body architecture is based on the Cadillac 60 Special. The C body is basically a four-window club sedan, it greenhouse separated from the lower body mass, with an integrated coupe style trunk with softer, sportier lines.

It was a highly influential style at that time. For 1941, Packard, Hudson and Nash integrated coupe style trunks into their existing six window sedans. Studebaker's new bodies for Commander and President are designed in the Torpedo C body idiom, even included the Land Cruiser four window club sedan, a handsome ringer for the GM C bodies on which it's clearly based. Chrysler added the Town Sedan to Dodge, DeSoto, and Chrysler. Only Ford shows no production response, though a Lincoln Zephyr club sedan would have been a welcome addition to that line.

Pricing the '41 Clipper between the Buick Roadmaster/ Cadillac 61 and the Cadillac 62 reveals where Packard hoped to conquest sales. Trying to do so with the 120 chassis against 320 and 346 cu. in. eights has to be viewed as a real mistake. Why the Clipper didn't arrive with the model 160 mechanicals is a complete mystery.

Of Chrysler: the Imperial, after a strong start as the L-80, CG & CL Custom Imperial, submerged into the Airflow episode, emerged to became just the nicest Chrysler offered, a name to exploit for sales purposes. The Custom and Crown Imperials were their only pretense toward the luxury market from the mid-'30's until 1942. Looking at the miniscule volume, it seems a car created so Walter P. and other Chrysler executives wouldn't have to ride in another make luxury car on their rounds. Examining how it was built, one can see it was rationalized totally with lower volume lines, its major components all shared with lesser models.

Once Packard entered the upper medium price segment, their concern was more with the eight cylinder Chrysler models that competed directly with the 120. In quest of this market, Chrysler too did very well in the late '30's, adding eight cylinder sales for every year from '36 to '42 except '38 and '39. Imperial was a concern only in so far as it competed directly with the 120, the Custom Imperials nothing to worry about.

I look forward to reading your comments and insights. Thanks as well for keeping on the topic.

Steve

West

Thanks for posting the factory photo of the coupe, I've never seen it before. It's interesting, though lacks the verve of the styles they offered.

Perhaps if they had lowered the top line as they did for the sedan and club coupe, it would have been more appealing.

The tie bar wheel ring lock seems a good idea for lock rings in general. I wonder how affective they would be at high speed?

Steve