Happy Easter and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
164 user(s) are online (99 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 1
Guests: 163

humanpotatohybrid, more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal

Forum Index


Board index » All Posts (DavidPackard)




Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Seems that Kevin's carburetor is also missing the fast idle link, the choke trip lever (that's the part in Tinman's photo), and the choke piston link. If the fast idle link is AWOL then the choke connector rod is also likely missing. The link and rod should have been visible in Kevin's 'Finished rebuild 2' photo in post 456, but they are missing.

It looks that what the carburetor was configured with a manual choke a lot of Carter's automatic choke hardware was removed. My immediate concern is the loss of the high idle feature. There may be climate conditions where the engine will start but either immediately stall, or run really rich because the throttle is not reset to high idle during warm-up. Kevin can ultimately determine when unloading is necessary, so in my mind that Carter hardware is optional.

I've attached a file containing the US Patent 2,402,361 (see Tinman's photo). The operation of the automatic choke, fast idle, and vacuum/air flow/full throttle unloading are discussed in the disclosure.

dp

Attach file:


pdf Size: 441.43 KB; Hits: 102

Posted on: 2020/12/16 14:05
 Top 


Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Kevin, a few items about the carburetor:

1. The means to adjust the float level is quite different when installing a 'Daytona' type fuel inlet valve. With this valve the float level is adjusted by adjusting the number of gaskets between the housing casting and the female portion of the valve. With the tapered valve a tab on the float is bent to achieve the correct float level. When using a 'Daytona' valve the aforementioned tab should press pretty much in the center of the valve . . . that's important!

2. I use a twist drill as a float level gauge. At times I've also measured the gasket thickness and correct the recommended dimension so I can check the level with the gasket in place.

3. Air flow through the automatic choke. There is a drilled passage in the housing that 'tunes' the vacuum applied the vacuum choke un-loader piston, and ultimately limits the total flow. I think the labyrinth seal geometry on the piston actually sets the total flow. If your choke set-up does not have the piston installed you will probably be on the high side of air flow and be limited by the orifice. If the choke does not have the unloader piston I think I would put a cap on the choke stove fitting. If the unloader piston is still installed it doesn't matter if the stove tubing is installed, or not, but the unloader function will not work if the fitting is capped. Surely the temperature will change whether the stove is hooked-up or not, but not the total amount of air entering the choke housing. I think the thread where the choke stove tubing attaches is a simple ? inch tubing compression fitting. Your local hardware store should have all of the parts you need, including a cap. If it was mine, I would put a cap on the fitting when the manual choke hardware is installed and manage the unloading myself. I have an air horn/choke housing for a WDO that appears to have over-temperature damage, in that the two screws (yours has three ?) that hold the adjustment cover on are no longer parallel . . . they are bent outward. Unless quite warm carburetor castings are not known for their ductility, hence the conclusion that high temperature was part of the scenario.

War story: When my dad was teaching me how to start his '48 Chevy with a manual choke and throttle, his advice was; Choke full closed, throttle half, key on, depress started pedal, when engine fires push choke in to 'one finger' unless it was really cold and then it would be 'two fingers', finally adjust throttle to keep engine running, but all of that was done in less than a second, so the engine didn't over rev. I still use that process on my Brand X, which is by far the best starting of my 'old cars'. The Zenith carburetor on Brand X is an up-draft, so there is no accelerator pump. I've convinced myself if the choke and throttle is set correctly where is no need to 'pump the gas' more than what is necessity to set the automatic choke.

I'm done.

dp

Posted on: 2020/12/9 13:59
 Top 


Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Kevin; I downloaded one of the WDG data sheets available on this site, and I would say the pointed needle looks like the accelerator pump discharge check valve, "pump check needle' in Carter speak. See part 17-70 on the 728S/SA sheet. It would be installed pointed end down. The attached drawing is for a WCFB, but the concept is the same. When you depress the throttle pedal the accelerator pump begins to push fuel out of the pump chamber . . . the bottom ball check will close, and the upper needle is pushed upward by the flow of fuel. When the accelerator pump has finished the discharge stroke the needle will fall back to its seat by gravity. When you let off the gas the pump rises and the bottom ball opens. The needle, already being on its seat, inhibits air from flowing backwards into the discharge nozzles. Early Carter documentation might show a 'ball check' in the upper position. I think the needle design was introduced in Packard carburetors in 1941. That's the first part that falls out the first time the carburetor is tipped upside down. If all the fact were known, I've completely assembled a carburetor only to have one part left over . . . yep it was the 'little pointed thing'! The accelerator pump won't work well if either check valve is missing or malfunctioning.

The needle in the fuel inlet valve will normally have an undercut where a spring wire clips on and loosely attaches the needle of the float. See part 25-165S on the same sheet.

Bye the way, I've taken a few photos and measurements of the 'ropes' that fit in the trunk between the fender and wheel tub. I think that subject was discussed a while back. If you still need that info I'll post the information.

dp

Attach file:



jpg  (114.66 KB)
34287_5fcefdc78207e.jpg 1174X668 px

Posted on: 2020/12/7 23:15
 Top 


Re: Various CL Pickings
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
PackardDon - I've got a '54 Cavalier out in the garage with the same trunk mounted script in the same location. If it's wrong then the population just doubled. On the last page of the '54 Packard and Clipper sales brochure there's a photo of a dark blue Cavalier on the test track with two fifth wheels attached. It looks like the same script is on that car. Now the question is whether a car can have two fifth wheels?

dp

Attach file:



jpg  (26.26 KB)
34287_5fcb02477935f.jpg 404X354 px

Posted on: 2020/12/4 22:45
 Top 


Re: 1949 oil canister
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Joey d, there isn't much to see or photograph inside the oil filter canister. There is a central tube that the cover bolt threads into, and you should be able to see evidence of the fitting on the side wall, along with the 1/8 pipe drain fitting at the bottom if so equipped . . . not all were and the ones that don't required a lot of oily rags to clean the last bit of oil and junk out of the bottom. That drain is a bit off to the side and should not be confused with the fitting where the engine plumbing attaches. Now the cover is another story . . . there is a flat washer, spring, and bolt. The washer and spring may be captive. Likewise the bolt may be captive or easily removed. The cover has a lip to hold a gasket/seal, and the bolt will likely have a metal washer to effect a seal in that area. That's about it . . . an empty can. Most of the 'cans' will have the limiting orifices incorporated as specific diameter drilled passages . . . . something you can't change, nor should you. Most of us use a 'turkey baster' to remove the 'dirty' oil during a filter change. I'm guilty of not getting all of the oil from the baster to the drain bucket and have a bit of clean-up after the job is done.

dp

Posted on: 2020/12/4 18:47
 Top 


Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
HH56 - The black item is a piece of irrigation tubing split along its length, actually a sliver of material the width of the pinch weld was removed from the plastic tubing. It's decorative only and hides the pinch weld. ACE was having a sale on a lot of paint samples around 2-4 oz each. While the carpet looks one color it is actually a blend of many, I think I have enough to make the tubing the same color(s) as the carpet. If you look behind the spare I'll be able to see the right pinch weld cover.

Let the ride decide - That is a piece of 0.100 inch thick 6016-T6 cut into a 12 inch diameter circle. I printed some decals that mimic the typical Packard hub cap. The extinguisher bracket hides the decal split line quite well (I'm limited to 8.5 X 11 decals, so it must be 2 pieces). Since my last name is Packard I took the liberty to print some plates that mimic the type of plates that you might find say on the trunk mounted AC unit. The tag on the tool box reads: Packard Emergency Roadside Equipment, and then Packard Motor Car Company Detroit, Michigan. Again the plate is 6061-T6 with a decal . . . actually when I'm trying to get a jet black background I have to use 2 decals, one on top of the other. The reflectivity of the aluminum plate coupled with the amount of ink deposited during printing results in a gray color if only one decal is used . . . same is true for the pseudo hub cap . . . both the red and the black needed two layers. The extinguisher is the modern version of Halon, rated excellent for electrical and liquids . . . not so much for wood. The claim is zero clean-up after discharge, that's what I wanted.

The black box on the right holds 2 Optima six volt batteries for the 12 volt negative ground electrical system that 'floats' inside the car. That's for a modern radio, GPS, and various USB power outlets. It's a constant loss system, but at the power demand of modern radios results in days on continuous use. The batteries are recharged after each use of the car . . . no more than 2-3 hours of use. In a pinch either of those batteries could be used under the hood. The box is yet another 6061 wonder that bolts to the right hinge reinforcement. The upper shelf is attached to another plate attached to the left hinge reinforcement. This shelf is another piece of 6061 rigidly attached to the vertical plates . . . quite rigid to 'racking' . . . there is a piece of plywood, with bull nose, to hold the upholstery and increase the stiffness to vertical loads.

The message to Kevin was the easy in which the 'hump' could be made into a shelf, and once there's a shelf the craziness may begin.

I should stop here because I think high jacking Kevin's thread distracts from his progress on his '54 project. I can't believe the pace!

dp

Posted on: 2020/12/3 0:32
 Top 


Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Kevin, before I fitted a carpet in the trunk of my '54 I made a wooden tread and riser that turned the curved surface over the rear axle housing into something more like a shelf. I put a ? round profile at the sharp corner and wrapped the carpet over the wooden assembly. The joint where the two pieces came together was reinforced with a full length corner block, and toward the rear seat there is another block mounted on the bottom surface of the tread that ensures the whole mess doesn't shift around. That was 5 years ago and the shelf hasn't shifted even though the only thing holding it is the weight of a toolbox sitting on it. No extra bolt holes are needed, therefore reverting to 'as born' requires nothing more than lifting the shelf out. The carpet is HomeDepot indoor/outdoor light brown that would be a bit lighter hue than the chopped goat hair flocking that would have been on the fenders. However the carpet is too thick and rigid to form well over the compound curve of the 'tubs', so I made a few pieces of sheet metal 'tubs' to simplify the upholstery effort. RTV was used to adhere the new metal to the trunk, so I suspect the new 'tubs' can be pulled out with some effort. See attached photo. It is an exercise in pattern making! I folded the material back onto itself to make sure the edge didn't degrade with time.

dp

Attach file:



jpg  (278.82 KB)
34287_5fc830c49e939.jpg 1920X1080 px

Posted on: 2020/12/2 19:26
 Top 


Re: 'T' Throttle Cable
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Thanks ptv

Does anyone know what company made the knobs, cables, and such for Packard ? I suspect there were vary few companies making that type of hardware, so from one make of car to another perhaps there are very subtle differences.

dp

Posted on: 2020/11/28 23:15
 Top 


Re: Packard Trips
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
I was entering the 'T' intersection from the secondary road that was obligated to stop, and while I was waiting for the approaching traffic I noticed the car leading the pack was Ernie high balling along with the right of way. If you can imagine two guys doing 'jumping jacks' inside their cars to get the attention of another driver . . . that was us. Not sure the other drivers picked-up on the fact that two late forties Packards were at the same intersection.

At a quick glance our cars are identical . . . of course they're not, mine is a 22nd, and Ernie's is a 23rd, but both are 4 door deluxe touring sedans and are painted the same color, therefore to the folks stalking the ACE hardware parking lot they're twins . . . they don't know exactly what they are, but surely twins. I just couldn't pedal fast enough to catch-up in-time, but caught a glimpse of the '49 making a turn to the north about a mile after the encounter.

I suspect a lot of the 'breakfast joints' we would visit have not survived the COVID-19 situation. Personally I've pretty much stayed home since spring. What I've learned since is that my wife is a pretty darn good barber. Before her first attempt we both agreed my hair would grow back and I had a lot of baseball caps.

dp

Posted on: 2020/11/28 23:04
 Top 


Re: 'T' Throttle Cable
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
Chris;

If you can't find a suitable OEM replacement . . . .

I'm going to plead not guilty on the aircraft cable research issue. I'm sure if I ever did find something appropriate the cost would be quite high. A while back I was toying with the idea of having a manual choke and throttle options and did find a few in the website that cater to post war Chevrolet trucks.

Here is one of many:
54-55.1 THROTTLE KNOB & CABLE-Brotherstrucks.com
That didn't seem to copy-over as a URL . . . the site is 'brothers trucks', again one of many.


Seems over the years many knob configurations were used by GM.

dp

Posted on: 2020/11/28 20:01
 Top 



TopTop
« 1 ... 25 26 27 (28) 29 30 31 ... 52 »



Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved