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Mal,
Indeed you are right, it is fascinating to see how many of the threads on this forum take on many lives of their own. I suppose it is much like tire kicking at a car show. Lots of topic hopping. I apologize if this has created a problem in this particular thread.

I will attempt to recap incase this fellow checks in at some point.

? Fellow [pab] has a '35 and is looking for an engine.
? We do not know the model of his car.
? pab mentions an aluminum crankcase narrowing down to 320 or 385
? Complete engine in running order a tall order, not very likely.
? Not an easy or economical engine to rebuild.
? I have mentioned I know where a '34 385 engine is currently available and would assist with directing pab to possible seller.
? If complete engine is obtained, my recommendation is carefully inspect the bearings (dissenting opinion about bearing life aside in this post, this would be a good idea regardless the engine).

Again, my apologies, to pab and Mal.

Jim

It was Randy's as far back as I can recollect. If I remember right, Winchell's was on Centinela and Enterprise. Hard to say, could have been Winchell's in the beginning. If I remember right (told to me), the big doughnut has been around since the 40's or 50's

Funny, the things we remember about places and times.

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Good memory

yes! Randy's Doughnuts on Manchester and what is now the freeway. That was actually still around as of 18 - 20 years ago that I know of. Who knows, maybe still there now.

How about Inglewood tire shop, and J&J Muffler on La Brea.

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Pete, I am confused about "You guys simply do not know what you are talking about as to those relationships." Again, I had no prior knoledge of your relationships with these fellows, therefore never commented on them in any way.

I can certainly understand the confusion on ECA & ECL easy enough both being Packard related in the Los Angeles area. No harm done.

As for not knowing "Fred", who is Fred? No one has made a reference to a Fred that I can find.

Sounds like you new some great people in Southern California. I am originally from Inglewood. Things really changed drastically in much of the greater Los Angeles area over the years. Part of me liked living there, and part of me could never go back.

Jim

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I am not sure if the odd post about the fellows shop on Valley Blvd. was directed to me, but if so, I am afraid you have your wires crossed Pete. I never had the pleasure. My post had nothing to do with the gentleman you mention. I am not sure where that would have been read into it. My late friend's name was Walt Pfifer and he worked for Earle C. Anthony (ECA) Los Angeles as described in my previous post above. Walt worked For ECA from around '24 to '53 - '54 or something like that. Walt had a light grey / dark grey '32 900 roadster. He was a neat guy. I have no recollection of Walt mentioning the fellow you mentioned above, But he might have known him, I couldn't say.

I guess it sounds like you agree there is just the slightest chance that the condition of flaking bearing failure could exist. This condition seems to happen at times for whatever reason. Your hypothesis seems totally plausible. The hypothesis of others that the shells are thin and never maintain good crush leading to poor heat transfer causing flaking and failure could be feasible also. I just don't know. Perhaps this condition is just totally isolated to individuals currently working on late 320's, I don't know, could be I guess. I never worked on or around Packard's 40 or more years ago. All I have to go on is what I have seen in the here and now while actually working on, and engaged with others who are currently dealing with these engines experiencing similar problems. Anyway, I really don't know what else I can say

Are you coming to the Orphan show tomorrow? It would sure be neat to have another pre-war Packard out there. I think one of the Northern guys might bring his Franklins down. If so, see you tomorrow!

Jim

O_D
I have a box full of 320 bearings that suffered from bearing / shell separation. I suppose this could be a strange coincidence, as I am only going on what I have personally experienced, seen, and been lead to believe by some extremely reputable Packard experts pertaining strictly to the late 320 engines. I have no knowledge of 385, 12 (or early babbited 320) bearing life, as they are different engines utilizing different parts and in no way could speak to their life expectancy. It seems odd that there was a running change in bearing material for the 320 bearing. I suppose it could have been coincidence, or maybe it was changed for a reason, for instance issues with longevity. One thing is for sure, Packard utilized bearing (flanged rod bearings) and rod (bolts integral with rod) designs in this period that were never to be used in the auto industry again that I am aware of.

The funny thing is, my long departed good friend that worked for ECA Los Angeles never ever mentioned any such failures occurring in late 320 engines during the time period when he worked for ECA. On the other hand, the founder of Packards International was gracious enough to talk about his experience in the 60's with numerous 320 bearing failures. Again, not 385 or 12, but 320. He had a fix utilizing a modern design easily obtainable bearing.

I do not doubt what your experience, and as stated earlier my late ECA employee friend (more accurately what he didn't say) or others with late 320's having no bearing failures. However, having first hand experience, and than receiving guidance from reputable Packard experts, a box full of failed bearings and most recently another friend with a 38 320 with flaking bearing material, I would be a bit prone to believe there is a perceptible trend of some kind.

Funny thing is, the bearings that are currently in process of being reproduced and made available in limited quantity are a direct result of this type of failure in that '38 320 engine mentioned above. I am confident that the run of reproduced bearings will be available in the near future. These guys are very capable long term Packard enthusiast. They have successfully reproduced and made available other high quality components.

Again, great discussion. At the end of the day, who knows what the real deal is. I am glad to have received the expert guidance I received about using modern proven bearings. I am also equally glad that quality original equipment style bearings will be available soon. I certainly would have liked to have had the choice when hunkering down and making the best of the situation I was in a while back. It is always good to have options.

The engine number provided by the person Mal posted for in the original post of this thread does not seem to match Big Kev's newly (and very handy) introduced engine number chart. I am really not sure what engine he has, but surely will not know unless he is able to post more info. A very interesting thread non-the-less.

Jim

O_D

That is an interesting anomaly in the '34 320 / 385 engines. If my recollection is correct the 385 that is available here in Arizona is a '34. This fellow that Mel is posting the thread for is unsure of what engine his car was equipped with.

I know very little about the 385 engines. Maybe you could answer a curious thought that occurred to me, did the '35 / '36 385 get the same style flanged thin wall inserts as the 320 or were they more durable due to the bigger dimensions?

Packard seemed to struggle a little with connecting rod / bearing design at that time in their history. The rod bolts seem so close to the rod bore for no great reason. The finned caps are bizarre. The 12 rod seems to be of high quality, but for the life of me, I can't imagine why they would have forged the bolts integral with the rod assembly. It seems like this rendered the rod assembly disposable once the bolt stretched, or the bolt / rod damaged.

I will admit, these engines are a step ahead of most of their flathead contemporaries of that period.

My initial assumption was this probably had the 320. I could be wrong, as both the 320 & 385 were available in 35. If this is a 385 I may have a lead on a '34 385 here in Arizona. I do not think the engine can be determined by the body number. The determination should be able to be made by checking external dimensions of the crankcase.

Yes, the Max Merritt folks have made the "bearings coming soon" claim for about two years that I know of. I left my name on the list about a year or more ago, never got a call. That is one reason I took the plunge and converted to modern bearings. The other reason of course is the inherent failure prone thin shell design. They were just not a long-term component in these applications. I have seen to many examples of these bearings that have failed due to poor heat transfer and bearing / shell separation to fool with them. There is a fellow in the San Fernando Valley (Calif.) who is attempting to reproduce them in a .030 undersize and sell with the idea of buyers having machined to size. Not sure if that has materialized yet or not.