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Board index » All Posts (Dave32901)




Re: Packards in the back of beyond
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32model901
The type of fan belt shown is called a Brammer link belt.

One of the benefits of this belt is that it can be installed without taking apart or moving the pulleys.

There is a company in the UK that offers these new.

Some background on the Brammer type link belt, off the Brammer WEB site:

Made from a series of individual links, link belts offer a unique alternative to traditional V-belts and wedge belts. The belts are a simple concept but deliver outstanding results solving many problems that can occur with V-belts & wedge belts.

Highly resistant to water steam, oil and most industrial chemicals. They are also highly resistant to abrasive substances such as grit, sand, gravel and other building materials. They operate at extreme temperatures (-40 to 100oC) with minimum effect on performance. Easily made to fit any length.
? Long lasting belt - up to 20 times longer in some applications
? Fit in minutes, not hours - belts can be joined around the pulleys without dismantling the drive
? Minimal maintenance - fit and forget
? Reduced vibration/ noise - link design can reduce transmitted vibration and belt noise by up to 50%

Posted on: 2010/6/26 18:54
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Re: 733 brakes locking on
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Big Ed,

There are two slightly different designs for the Perrot shaft assembly. One design has a dust cover on the top of the front backing plate and a exposed ball stud and socket that is connected to the frame.

The second design has the same dust cover on the front backing plate but instead of a ball stud on the frame there is a shaft and bushing covered by a dust cover, that mounts to the frame.

The first design was used on later series cars, the second on earlier series.

Both designs use dust covers that are spring loaded. A dust cover is comprised of two covers, a outer and inner. The inner is fixed to the front backing plate and the outer is free to slide forwards and backwards across the inner, as the front wheel turns.

For the earlier design the inner is fixed to the frame and the outer slides up and down as the frame moves up and down on the springs.

Regards,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/6/16 18:14
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Re: 733 brakes locking on
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Big Ed,

First answer - the Perrot shaft assembly sits approx. level when the car is at a "normal" ride height. I checked a eighth and ninth series and they were about the same.

Because you have the body off I would hold off on all brake adjustments until you have the body back on.

Second question - 1/4" out at the end where the brake cable attaches is not that bad, especially when you consider the distance you're from the center of the shaft, where the play is in the joint. You have three areas where the play adds up, long shaft to pin, pin to short shaft, and short shaft to the cam that operates the primary and auxiliary shoe.

The dust cover (closest to the front backing plate) over the Perrot universal joint has a "C" clip type collar that fits into a groove in the shaft. Pull the spring back from this collar and you should be able to remove the "C" type clip. When you do this you will release the spring that holds the dust cover against the mating other half of the ball.

I've dealt primarily with eighth and ninth series cars so all the info I've given is based on those models. I believe the Perrot type system was used on Packard's from '25 on, your seventh series may have some differences.

Good luck,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/6/15 18:34
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Re: 733 brakes locking on
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Owen_Dyneto & Big Ed,

I'm glad I could be of some help.

The "usual" areas where I've seen wear is the pin and hole in the long shaft that the brake lever is connected to and the hole in the short shaft that slides into the shaft that is connected to the cam that operates the primary and auxiliary shoes.

The short shaft and pin is located inside the spring loaded dust cover on the top of each front wheel backing plate. If the pin is worn a replacement can be made out of a good quality tool steel such as AISI/SAE 01 or more commonly known as A-1 tool steel. This is readily available in small diameters. One source is mcmaster.com or most machine shop or tool supply house.

If the hole in the long or short shaft is worn you can ream the hole slightly oversize. Once again mcmaster carries hand reamers. If you get the hand reamer do not turn it counterclockwise as you are cutting, you may break the flutes off the reamer. Don't try and use a drill to open the holes up, a reamer will give you a more uniform hole with a better surface finish.

Best method - hold the shaft in a machine vise and use a gage pin or indicator to make sure the hole in the shaft is in line with the spindle of the milling machine or drill press you are using. If you know someone with a tool or machine shop they can help you out.

Personally I'd wait until the body is on the frame before adjusting the brakes. I don't know what (car) body style you have, open or closed, but either way you're looking at 500 - 800 pounds that is going to be added to the frame. Not having this weight on the frame is going to change the geometry angles of the brake system and the brake cable lengths.

Regards,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/6/13 18:16
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Re: 733 brakes locking on
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Big Ed,

A few comments:

Check the Perrot units for wear. This unit is a small universal joint. If the pin and coupling inside has excessive wear the two ends of the joint inside the dome shell on the top of the front wheel backing plates will not be on the same axis or center-line.

The more wear you have in this unit the greater the two shaft ends inside will be out of alignment. The more these two shaft get out of alignment the rotation of the end operating the brakes will increase as the wheel is turned, assuming the end the brake cable is attached to is fixed.

You can easily check the play by disconnecting the brake cable and pulling the front drum. Hold the cam that operates the brakes securely and try and rotate the end the brake cable is attached to back and forth.

The working parts of the Perrot unit consists of three shafts and a pin. One shaft goes to he brake cable, one goes to the cam that operates the primary and auxiliary shoe, and the third shaft is the rotating coupling or universal joint. The three shafts are connected by a pin.

These parts were made to fit together closely. I've taken original units apart from cars with 70K miles on them and there has been about .005-.010 play in the whole unit. As long as there has been grease in the unit they seem to stand up well (once again, we can thank the Packard Engineering Department).

Because these Perrot units are not CV (constant velocity) universal joints even in perfect condition there will be some rotation of the joint as the wheel is turned.

I've adjusted the brakes of cars using the Perrot system, and if I had they were adjusted a little tight, the brakes would lock just as you described, even with the Perrot units in good condition.

You may want to try backing of the brake cable adjustment nut to give you a little more play in the front brake system.

Your experiment of disconnecting the cable and looking for rotation of the shaft as the wheel was turned is a good clue. One suggestion, apply some force on the brake shaft to take up any play that may be in the Perrot unit and turn the wheel side to side and see if you can see the brake shaft move. Take up the play in both directions when you turn the front wheel side to side.

If there is play in the Perrot unit you may not see it with the brake cable removed, because as you rotate the wheel side to side with out any pre-load in the system the movement of the Perrot unit could get lost in the play that is in the three shafts and pin (if any).

These brakes can be a "bear" to adjust properly, but when they are, they work great. A thorough, major brake adjustment can take 4-6 hours. I've found the best method is to remove all the brake cables, loosen up the two anchor pin nuts slightly, put a good load on the operating lever and then sock down the anchor pins. Make sure the eccentric adjustment is backed off before you do this. This method centers the shoes in the drum and then allows you to adjust the eccentric to bring the primary and secondary show up to the drum.

I've made up a mechanical foot using some 1/2" threaded rod, a nut, and a few 2 x 4's. When you have all 4 wheels centered they you have to adjust the brake cables at each wheel to get them to operate uniformly. Having a tool you can put against the front seat and adjust to press the brake pedal down and hold it there in one spot will make the 4-wheel adjustment much easier. Just try asking your wife / girlfriend / significant other to keep their foot on the brake with 80 pounds force for a hour, it just doesn't work.

One key point to getting good operating brakes in the position of the brake lever on the brake shaft. With the brakes applied fully you always want to be 5 to 10 degrees before full vertical position to a vertical position. This way you have the greatest amount of leverage applied to the brake shaft.

Good luck,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/6/12 17:01
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Re: screwed up crankshaft for my 32
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32model901
One addition comment that may be helpful when having the engine rebuilt:

I had a reputable engine builder bore & pour the major stuff so I could finish the job and save some $$$$. The engine builder looked at the camshaft. They polished the cam lobes, no wear was evident thanks to the roller rockers.

I finished assembling the engine and couldn't get it to run right. I finally ended up measuring the cam lift per lobe as I rotated the cam because of difficulty adjusting to .006 clearance.

I discovered a few of the cam lobes were not located on the center axis of the camshaft. Even though the cam lobes looked perfect, because they were bent off center it was impossible to adjust to .006 tappet clearance. As I rotated the cam I was getting some valve lift even when I wasn't on the cam lobe.

This required I pull the block off the crankcase and remove the cam, which was sent out for straightening and re-grinding.

Lesson learned - DO NOT let any machine shop tell you your cam is OK just because they don't see or measure wear on the cam lobes.

Lift for each lobe can be determined by measuring the base circle of each lobe and subtracting it from the overall lobe height.

The lift per lobe on my cam was within .002, but since some of the lobes were off center .011, it was impossible to adjust to .006 tappet clearance.

If you're not having your camshaft re-ground ask your engine re-builder to inspect the cam and give you base circle and lift measurements for each lobe with the cam set on vee-blocks and rotated on it's journal's.

This is the only way you will know each lobe has the correct lift and is positioned correctly to the center of the camshaft journal bearings.

Dave

Posted on: 2010/5/4 13:51
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Re: 1934 1104 running hot
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Tom,

One suggestion, you may want to check the clearance between the pump impeller and the casting in the block. An easy way to do this is to stick three small pieces of clay to the back of the impeller equally spaced around the diameter that is facing the block.

Maybe you can ask one of you "helpers" to donate some. Playdough will work fine also.

After you attach the three pieces of clay to the impeller bolt the pump back in, then remove it and check the thickness of the clay. What you're tying doing is measure the clearance between the impeller and the block. If this clearance is to large you're going to reduce the flow of the pump.

I did this on a '32 which had .110 clearance. most modern water pumps are designed for .035 - .055 clearance between the impeller and block. I removed the impeller from the pump and machined a large copper disk which I soldered to the back of the impeller after machining it flat. I used .062 thick copper which gave a working clearance of .048, after the pump was bolted it.

I took temp. readings before and after I did this and saw a 15 degree drop in the coolant temp. under identical test conditions.

The impeller clearance is critical because as this clearance increases the coolant circulates from the center of the impeller to the outside of the impeller through this gap, instead of flowing through the block and radiator.

I've also had good luck using a wetting agent, which reduced the surface tension of the coolant. Most parts stores carry this, one trade name is hyperkool.

Regards,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/5/3 19:16
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Re: Remove and Re-core 1934 Radiator
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32model901
Tom,

You may want to talk to:

http://antiqueradiators.com/

These guys are located in Maine. A few years ago I dealt with them and they seemed OK.

I'm not sure about a honeycomb in the '34 but I do know it was stock in a '32. I had one made about five years ago and it's not inexpensive. Current cost is going to be $1500 to $2500+.

You want to have it done right up front, the honeycomb is tough to repair. I have samples of the original core Packard used. They used two types of material, brass for the water tubes and copper for the fins on each side of the tubes.

If you do have any future problems with the radiator, under no circumstances use a product such as Barr's leak stop in the radiator. Due to the narrow passages a leak stop product such as this will clog the core.

If you don't want to have a honeycomb core made there are shops that will use a modern core (tube & ribbon) and put a false honeycomb on each side of the core.

Regards,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/5/3 17:49
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Re: screwed up crankshaft for my 32
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You may want to call Art Brummer Packard Parts @ 207-743-5001.
They were making the correct bolts to secure the counter weights on the '32 crank. The P/N for these was P111.

If they do not carry these anymore, use a grade 8 socket head cap bolt and tack weld the head of the bolt to the weight to make sure it doesn't loosen up. The head of the bolt may have to be turned down to fit into the c'bore on the crank weight. A little Locktite 271 on the bolt threads would be an added safety measure. Do this after the bolts are torqued down.

I recall there was approx. 1-1.5 inches of thread engagement of these bolts into the crank.

The counter weights on the '32 overhang the rod journals. so if the crank needs to be ground all the weights on the crank usually need to be removed before grinding the journals.

Bottom line - you don't want these coming loose!

Good luck,

Dave

Posted on: 2010/5/3 17:34
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Re: Fuel Pump - Stewart Warner #407 - 1932
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32model901
Wow!

Thanks to all for the fantastic response. I had a hunch this pump was rare based on the difficulty I had finding it anywhere.

If anyone needs a source to replace the top half casting of the Stewart Warner 407 pump I've found a source that manufactures the casting out of bronze, and then cadmium plates it. A few years ago I re-built a pump for a friend and used the casting to replace the top half that was cracked. The replacement fit and has worked fine. I've attached a file that shows the current source.

Since I can get the internal re-build parts all I have to do is find a sample of the three main castings, upper, lower, and pump arm to use as patterns for new castings.

I'll see it I can dig up some pictures of the SW 407 pump to send to Taxman.

I have an original Owen-Dyneto regulator that I can take some pictures of for tbirdman.

I also have a roster of all model 901's I've run across over the last 10 years. May be an interesting post for later.

I've taken some pictures of the Packard section from a 1931 MOTORS manual I have. They are about 1.8M in size each, and about 10 photos. Also have info from a 1930 MOTORS brake manual with detailed info on adjusting the Packard Bendix three shoe system.

Should I send these to bigkev@packardinfo.com for possible WEB site data?

Thanks again,

Dave

Attach file:


pdf Size: 142.10 KB; Hits: 161

Posted on: 2009/6/11 11:35
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