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Board index » All Posts (AndrewM)




Dual Master Cylinder
#1
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
I have a question about changing out my Treadle Vac and replacing it with a dual master with power booster setup. I know this topic has been discussed many times in the past, but I want to be sure everything will work before I make the change. I personally don't have anything against a Treadle Vac when they are working, since mine stops decent. However, it is going on 20 years since the previous owner installed this one when the car was restored in 2002-2003, and I'm looking to change to something I can trust more since where I live has a lot of mountains to go up and down as well as a lot of traffic. I found a rear wheel cylinder leaking a few days ago, and want to change to a dual master and booster while I'm already redoing part of the brake system.

In one thread on here, I saw where someone used a dual diaphragm booster and a Volkswagen remote master cylinder and attached them with a fabricated an adapter plate join the booster and master cylinder.

Link to thread: Volkswagen Power Brake Setup


I also looked at Craig's Panther project before the site went down and saw how he used a remote fill master and a dual diaphragm booster. He also changed his pedal setup.

Link to Craig's site in Web Archive I found: Craig's Power Brake Conversion


I then researched some more and found a thread on an Oldsmobile website of a 55 Olds that had an original BTV unit installed in the same location as the Packard with a 1:1 ratio pedal. He did basically the same conversion that Craig did. He used a dual remote master cylinder, single diaphragm booster instead of dual booster. He converted to disc brakes on the front, but I would probably leave mine drum since it is not easy to change a Packard to discs. He also used a proportioning valve, but I don't think I'll need that either since I would be staying with drums. I might need to 10 lb pressure check valve, but I'm not sure. The guy with the Olds originally altered his factory brake pedal like Craig did, but he went back to the original pedal after not liking the setup of the pedal he made. He said it stops well even with the 1:1 ratio that the Olds has in common with the Packard.

Link to Olds brake thread: Oldsmobile Under Floor Power Brake Conversion


My car is a 56 400, so I don't think my brake pedal is the same as a 55 like Craig originally had. I'm thinking about following a similar process to what the Oldsmobile guy did. One question I had would be what I would need to do with the brake light/torsion level switch?

On another note, I saw where the VW master cylinder I referenced had the ability to use the factory switch. I researched and saw a dual VW master cylinder listed on eBay. Can this VW master be used with the original switch? It says it is a 3/4" bore instead of the 1" that Craig and the Olds person used. Would this be better or worse? Also could this dual VW master be used with a booster to adapt it to the plate in the floor of the Packard?

Link to VW master on eBay: Remote Dual VW Master Cylinder

Another VW Master: VW Dual Master Remote Fill


Does anyone have any suggestions, or has anyone completed any of conversions that are similar?

Posted on: 4/24 10:44
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1956 Packard 400 Wire Wheels
#2
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
I'm looking at purchasing a set of wire wheels for my 56 400. I am wondering if anyone has used the wire wheels that Wheel Vintiques offers. These wheels are 5x5 bolt pattern. I'll probably order them and tires through Summit since they will mount and balance them. Also what size tires are most close to the originals? I'm thinking 235/75r15. Will this combination of wire wheels and this size whitewall tire fit behind the fender skirts?

Here is a link to wheels at Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wvi-70-5605358

Resized Image

Posted on: 4/12 19:48
 Top 


Re: 1956 400 Ultramatic Transmission Questions
#3
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
Andrew,
Take the lever off, post a picture and see what you have. I can sell this one, but remember it is a used one vrs NOS that you have already found.
Ask the sellers of the NOS levers to post pictures of it on its side to see if the have the curve.

The other thing is the rod length between 55 and 56. I didn’t look for different lengths. That was discussed in the Service Counselor.

When you take the lever off, maybe take the rod off or measure its length while you are there.


I took a look at the lever today. It is the 470038 part number one, so it must be off a 55. Which service counselor describes the rod length difference of 55 vs 56? Also, which rod is it?

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_2655.jpg (121.22 KB)
224808_603d75c56a2bd.jpg 551X748 px

Posted on: 3/1 17:17
 Top 


Re: 1956 400 Ultramatic Transmission Questions
#4
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SC-VOL30NO1.pdf

Page 4 gives a description of the change.

Made it to the shop and looked around to find these for comparison.

Hopefully this will answer some questions.


Is the one on the left the correct one for the 56? I think mine has the curve in it like that, but the angle of the picture makes it difficult to see. I'll look to make sure on Monday. If mine is not the correct one, would you be interested in selling the correct 56 one?

Posted on: 2/27 21:12
 Top 


Re: 1956 400 Ultramatic Transmission Questions
#5
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

R H wrote:
55


What is the difference between the 55 lever and the 56 lever. The part number on the 55 lever looks to be 470038, and I see 6484069 on the bag in the picture.

In the link to the one I saw on ebay, there was a 56 lever listed as part number 6480732. To me, these levers look pretty much the same.

NOS 56 Ultramatic Outer Lever

1956 Packard Transmission Outer Lever


Here are the pictures of the ones I saw on ebay:

Attach file:



jpg  s-l16001.jpg (422.24 KB)
224808_6039a2289aa32.jpg 1600X1200 px

jpg  s-l1600.jpg (170.48 KB)
224808_6039a22f999ff.jpg 1600X1200 px

Posted on: 2/26 19:36
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Re: 1956 Torsion Level Question
#6
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
Following up on what John posted.

Has the front end been rebuilt?
Have new “A” arm bushing been installed?

I was wondering if the rubber is having memory issues?

How are the shocks?


I think everything was replaced when it was restored about 2003 or so. It's only been driven about 1500 miles or so since then. The bushings look decent.

Posted on: 2/26 11:55
 Top 


Re: 1956 Torsion Level Question
#7
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

John Lauter wrote:
In addition to Howard's always excellent advice re: the electrical operation I am wondering if there isn't some mechanical binding occurring that may be causing this start-stop behavior? It would be beneficial to get the car on a hoist with treads you drive up on, not the type where the suspension hangs as the car is supported by the frame. Have someone up top load (work) the system while you watch the bars move.


I think it seems to be in the electrical that Howard mentioned. It works perfectly going up. It did work fine going down until Wednesday. It seems like a loose connection to me. I have a lift, and I'll try to get it on there soon once I get the lift cleaned off.

Posted on: 2/26 11:54
 Top 


Re: 1956 400 Ultramatic Transmission Questions
#8
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
Quote:

Andrew M wrote:
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
Sorry, but no pictures of the arms handy. But whoever robbed me in 2002 got a box full of the 1956 arms.

Somewhere I have old paper photos I took back in the 1970s of the two arms laying side-by-side. But where those photos are right now? Who knows? I have bins full of paper photos... from 60 years + and mostly unsorted.

But surely someone else out there knows this stuff and can show you a 1956 Ultramatic shifter arm made for a senior Packard that was originally equipped from the factory with manual selector lever?


Here are two I found on ebay. Do either of these look correct?

1956 Packard Automatic Trans Outer Lever for Manual Control Valve, NOS, #6480732

1956 Packard Ultramatic Outer Manual Valve Lever 6480732 NOS


Nope. The parts numbers may be somewhere from 1956–perhaps when they printed lists. But these are the 1955 style. Dead straight.

The ones I used and remember vividly were curved, not straight–no matter what the parts books or part numbers might say. And I had a Packard engineer back in the 1970s tell me why they changed the design.


Maybe someone will be able to find a picture. The one on the car looks to have an inward curve towards the transmission if looking at it from the front of the car to the back. When looking at it from the side of the car it looks straight. I'm not sure if the column is a 55 or 56. How can you tell the difference? I have all of the factory push button parts. It might be easier to convert it back if I can't get it figured out this way.

Posted on: 2/25 20:54
 Top 


Re: 1956 400 Ultramatic Transmission Questions
#9
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
The lever in the photo resembles the revised 55 lever as shown in the illustration accompanying the report of the rod issue in Service Counselor Vol 30 #1. The lever in the parts book plate 33 identifies the trans as a 56 and typical of 55. It shows a slight curve to the lever. Being there is a different part number for 56 Leeedy is correct -- there is a difference in levers and for that I apologize for not paying more attention to the differences and catching that.

The question would be did the entire column and linkage get transferred from a 56 parts car to make the conversion or was it pieced together. If you have a 56 column then everything might have been transferred intact except for the lever which might be sitting on on of the other transmissions if an extra came with the car. If parts are intermixed then I would agree with Leeedy that it can be a problem to adjust things. With the change in angle between the revised 55 and the 56 levers appearing to be fairly small there might be enough adjustment to firmly get in all gear positions. Does the lever move in equal steps with a distinct detent felt at each gear position N,H,D,L,R when going from neutral to reverse and back again?

Once you verify the trans is going into each selection completely you might be able to adjust the indicator to read properly by moving the clamp for the pointer which is under the rubber cover on the column. If you cannot get it to read properly then most likely an adjustment is at an extreme probably because of a mismatch in linkage.


Yes, there is a distinct feel when moving the shifter through N,H,D,L,R. The indicator itself on the dash is only off by maybe half a indicator letter at max.

Posted on: 2/25 20:50
 Top 


Re: 1956 400 Ultramatic Transmission Questions
#10
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Andrew M
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
Sorry, but no pictures of the arms handy. But whoever robbed me in 2002 got a box full of the 1956 arms.

Somewhere I have old paper photos I took back in the 1970s of the two arms laying side-by-side. But where those photos are right now? Who knows? I have bins full of paper photos... from 60 years + and mostly unsorted.

But surely someone else out there knows this stuff and can show you a 1956 Ultramatic shifter arm made for a senior Packard that was originally equipped from the factory with manual selector lever?


Here are two I found on ebay. Do either of these look correct?

1956 Packard Automatic Trans Outer Lever for Manual Control Valve, NOS, #6480732

1956 Packard Ultramatic Outer Manual Valve Lever 6480732 NOS

Posted on: 2/25 20:31
 Top 



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