Hello and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
28 user(s) are online (21 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 28

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal

Forum Index


Board index » All Posts (Redhexagon)




Re: Weird Surging
#1
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
I drove it today and I think the problem is carburetion.

It only surges when the secondary butterflies are open. I can slowly roll into the throttle and it pulls smoothly until I reach the secondaries at around half throttle, then it starts surging after the secondaries open. It pulls strong with good power. I can feel the "rush" as the secondaries open...it surges while doing it.

I'll pull the carburetor apart and check it out. Maybe the secondary jets are the wrong size or something is clogged. A plugged air bleed could be all that it takes. If the fuel flow surges or the air flow surges, it will make the engine surge.

Posted on: 2/24 2:39
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Weird Surging
#2
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
The carburetor is definitely not lean. Rich, actually. I live at high altitude and left the standard jets in it because it's not rich enough to hurt anything and it allows me to drive to lower altitude without damaging the engine from being lean.

It's not the gas cap. I've driven with the cap off with no change.

It's not the vacuum advance. The old vacuum advance didn't work and it still surged the same as it does with the new vacuum advance.

It's not the points or condenser. I've been through several sets. No change.

It's not the fuel pump. Three different fuel pumps all acted the same.

Nothing is out of place or clogged in the air cleaner. I soaked that whole thing out with kerosene and thoroughly inspected it before I ever drove it.

No valve springs are broken. I looked at them all when I had the valve covers off not long ago.

The fuel line is not clogged. I can blow a high volume of air back through it. Pinhole air leak, maybe, but usually that makes the pump lose prime when the car sits and I do not have that problem.

Motor mounts are good.

Throttle linkage is good.

Exhaust is not clogged.

Carburetor bowl vent is sealing properly and adjusted properly.




I wonder if it's some sort of fluttering in the air cleaner or carburetor. I can imagine the oil in the air cleaner getting sucked up into the gauze then draining back and getting sucked back up again in a fluttering rhythm. Something similar could happen with the air and fuel flow in the carburetor as well. Some models of four barrel carburetor can get secondary flutter. I might switch a pleated paper air cleaner onto it or disable the secondary barrels of the carburetor and see what happens.


It is definitely a weird one.

Posted on: 2/23 0:52
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Weird Surging
#3
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
My 1955 Patrician with a 3.54:1 axle surges while under heavy throttle at speeds between 35 and 80 mph. It seems to usually occur while in high gear converter drive, but I have felt surging while in direct drive as well. I have never felt it surge in low gear. It's a slow surging. You don't hear it, you feel it. The car just sort of slowly lurches forward and back.

Climbing a long, steep grade at 65 MPH and roughly 3/4 throttle makes it surge. I do not know if the converter unlocks for that. If it does, I don't hear or feel it. I'm pretty sure it just grinds up in it in direct.

Rolling heavy into the throttle at 50 mph unlocks the converter and it surges the whole way on up to 80 MPH whether you keep the throttle steady or go ahead and floor it after you reach 60 MPH (flooring below 55 mph downshifts to low...don't do that). Again, I cannot tell if or when the converter locks at those speeds.

The engine has good power even while surging. It will continue pulling hard. It's not like the surging that I have experienced in other cars due to ignition or carburetion problems where they fell flat on their face if you opened the throttle more. I do not hear any misfiring. The engine feels and sounds strong, but you can feel the car surging.

Moreover, it does this regardless of the outdoor temperature. It is the same on a 20-degree day as on a 90-degreee day. It's not a form of vapor lock.

Sometimes when it's surging you can let off the throttle partially then roll back in and it's better.

I have:

1. Replaced the fuel pump.
2. Replaced the fuel line between the pump and carburetor.
3. Replaced the fuel filter.
4. Blown out the fuel line between the tank and fuel pump to make sure it was not leaking or restricted.
5. Checked the rubber fuel hose at the pump.
6. Rebuilt the carburetor (Rochester 4GC).
7. Rebuilt the engine ignition system. Coil, points, condenser, wires, plugs, all of it.
8. Driven without the gas cap in case it was sucking a vacuum.
9. Changed the transmission fluid (Type F), adjusted the bands, adjusted the shifter linkage, and adjusted the throttle linkage.

Not one of those things has altered the surging even the slightest bit.


I don't know. I'm starting to think it might be the transmission slipping, but I don't get any of the "groan" that people describe when their lockup clutch is going out. The lockups that I hear at lower speeds are always crisp and clean, but I cannot hear or feel what is going on with the clutch at higher speeds.

I'm at the "get over it and live with it" stage.

Posted on: 2/6 18:54
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Ultramatic ATF
#4
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
FA is basically just F that is upgraded for longer service life. Its friction properties are the same as F.


I have an old car magazine from the 1960's sitting in my library somewhere that has an article talking all about the characteristics of the different types of transmission fluids and how the transmissions were designed to work on each of them. It's been a long time since I read it. I wish I could find it right now.

Basically, from what I can remember, Dexron produces a smooth slide into engagement, so the valve body is calibrated to apply the clutch quickly and let the fluid do all the work of smoothing things out. Meanwhile, Type F tends to slip a lot at first then suddenly grab, so the valve body is calibrated to apply the clutch much more gradually. I do not remember it saying anything about the old Type A fluids.

Those differences between Dexron and Type F were only during dynamic friction situations where the clutch is slipping during a shift. I think it said that the static or holding friction properties are the same between them, which means Type F will do nothing to stop your direct drive clutch from slipping under load.

Posted on: 2023/9/24 2:25
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Packards International Tour
#5
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
I get that, it just surprises me that I have not heard anything here or on Facebook about it. Seems like it would be a big deal.

Posted on: 2023/9/22 22:41
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Packards International Tour
#6
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
IS it taboo to talk about it or something? Who here is going?

Gold Canyon, Arizona. October 25th through 29th.

Posted on: 2023/9/22 3:05
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Ultramatic ATF
#7
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
Dexron is supposed to be the replacement for Type A, but experience has shown that Dexron tends to produce too much slippage in transmissions originally designed for Type A, not just the Ultramatic.

Type F has greater dynamic friction than Dexron, and will reduce slippage for faster, firmer shifts that increase clutch and band life.

I run all my old transmissions that originally specified Type A on Type F instead. The worst-case result is that you feel more of a jerk when they shift, but that is sure a whole lot better than feeling slippage!

My Ultramatic is quite happy on Type F.

Posted on: 2023/9/21 2:16
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Special TL Link Grease
#8
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
John Deere corn head grease is perfect.

Primeline "00" grease would also work if you are a cheapskate.

Posted on: 2023/9/21 1:52
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Power Steering With Radial Tires
#9
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
Keeping the belt bowstring tight helped quite a bit, but it was still a pain to park. With the engine at 450-500 rpm and the vehicle barely moving, most of the work to pivot those tires came from your arms.

So, out come the bias plies.

Coker was backordered on all 8.00-15's, so I went one size up to 8.20-15. I got some US Royals in 3.5" white wall. I repainted my wheels and made sure they were straight, too. I had the tire shop do a nice road force balance job because I hate shake and vibration.

SOOOOO MUCH BETTER.

It steers so nice now. Parking this car is a one-handed affair now. I can hopefully back off the tension on the power steering belt before I wear out bearings and crack mounts.

It rides so much smoother and quieter, too. Like a cloud. I hear noises I never could hear before, because the car is so much quieter. Patches and cracks in the pavement go completely unnoticed. The radials always felt harsh on those small bumps and imperfections.

Surprisingly tracks very nice. Hardly catches in grooves at all and it is responsive to small movements of the steering wheel. Some of my other cars on bias ply tires really stick in grooves and require lots of steering correction for road crown or crosswinds, but not this one. It pretty much just goes where you point it.

Speedometer is accurate now too, which is nice.

And it looks better.

Corners worse, obviously. Classic bias ply tire groan and mush if you take a turn too hot. Easy solution: slow down.

Overall, I am happy.

Posted on: 2023/6/26 5:20
1955 Patrician.
 Top 


Re: Ideas for engine cutting out under load.
#10
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Redhexagon
I fixed it.

The radio noise suppression capacitor on the ignition coil was partially shorting and leaking current to ground when it heated up. I put an ohmmeter on it, hit it with a heat gun, and watched its resistance drop.

Removed the capacitor. Problem solved. I'll worry about putting one back on if or when I fix the radio.

Posted on: 2023/6/26 4:57
1955 Patrician.
 Top 



TopTop
(1) 2 3 4 ... 6 »



Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved