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We've had several threads where the subject of R12 availability for our cars has been touched on. Here is another for a different take.

Just heard an article on the local news re home ACs. The refrigerant the vast majority of those use is also slated to be gone in 3 years (2015) so is getting in short supply.

The guy they interviewed said price of a top off locally has doubled to almost tripled in last two years. Also required to go the retrofit route to new approved stuff if more than a certain quantity is needed. Average price of around $600. At that amount for an old unit, I'd think it's almost better to bite the bullet and mortgage the kids to buy a new more energy efficient unit rather than retrofit.

Like everything else, beware of scammers. Apparently home systems are not immune to strange concoctions being introduced and damaging the units. The guy said they have run across some non working units locally where that had happened.

YEs. Without alot of detail i have a Central air unit ca. 1973. Worked great up until about 4 years ago. Bad pump, and gerry rigged valves (apparently when new).

I opted for WIndow units. 5 of them. Small units.

Down side: Noisy depending on location of units. Loosens window caulking over 8 to 10 years. Mounting in windows close to ground level invites B&E in some areas. Diminishes house asthetics.

Up-side: Cheap, low maintenance,excellent cooling and distribution/control. Noise and caulk problems can be greatly diminished with a dirt cheap window pane damper. I have a GE in one house well over 25 years old and it is just now beginning to wear out the motor bushings.

Stay with small ez to handle units. Big units a pita to R&R.

Modern Central units are major maintenance costs. This true of high end applianes too like washers and dryers. Problem is they have comuter boards that go bad.

Don;t get me started on things with computer boards. Many of us have washed and dried our cloths for DECADES using a cheap $200 Kenmore with no problems. Now it seems like everyone thinks they have to have somekind of top of line $1200 to $4K piece of equipment. Those high end models are strictly junk, exactly junk and only junk, computer boards or no computer boards.

From what i gather, the modern central air units of the last 10 to 12 years are no better and often blow computer boards to the tune of $400.

As for refrigerant i noticed the Freeze 12 is now up to about $20/can and R134 at $9 - $12/can. (I think they are about 12 oz cans). There is somekind of a new universal refrigerant for automotive i saw at O'reillies a couple of days ago but i can't remeber it's name. Labeling was rather vague as to what type it really is but lead me to believe it was somekind of universal refrigerant. It wasn't competitive priced tho.

Check with your local natural gas company. The local here in Tn has (or had as of 2 years ago) natural gas AC units for the house. Probably full of computer boards too.

Maybe we need to learn how to make our own computer boards now. It never ends.

R 12

check auto refrigerants.com they also make it for home use, freeze 12, but they call something else now, i just bought it for my toyota r 12 system,,eap approved, think i paid 8 bucks a can,,cheaper to buy in bulk,,,

they are in alpena, mi 49707


rik

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Thanks/ I just looked them up and ES-12a sounds intriguing also their statement that 6oz equals 18oz of freon or 16oz of 134.

Am a little concerned that it doesn't seem to require different fittings or identification -- or at least I didn't see it mentioned. They sell hoses for either. I was under the impression at one time there was a fine if an unknown refrigerant was removed and contaminated a shops recovery apparatus. They say it is fully compatible with both 12 and 134 which is rather interesting but doesn't really mention composition.

The freeze 12 has apparently been discontinued by the company that was selling it in small cans. Turns out that was mostly 134 with a small amount of another refrigerant.

Hi, Howard,

I can't say about hose's, i gave it to shop to deal with,, the cans they may have 134a threads,,,,i also bought some freeze 12 oil/sealer from local parts store looked like it had smaller threads..

rik

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"The freeze 12 ... in small cans. Turns out that was mostly 134 with a small amount of another refrigerant."

Yeah. I've been suspicous of that. I'm suspicous that refrigerants of ANY type or application automotive or houshold (that use a pump) are all the same and miscible (except convection type).

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"I was under the impression at one time there was a fine if an unknown refrigerant was removed and contaminated a shops recovery apparatus".

Of course. There is a fine for everything these days. But lets think about the "contaminated" recovery apparatus.

It begs the question:
Just exactly what becomes of the "recoverd" ("contaminated" or not) refigerant after the apparatus has filled up????? OF course there will always be some genius with a BS, MS or Phd from Little B-Peep University to chime in and say "They recycle it! Yaaaayy!!!!" Yeah, recycle it alrite. Recycled rite back into the NEXT customers car that comes in the door and charged for new refrigerent.

Think about it.

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In a talk I had with my mechanic last year he told me one option under consideration for the future is either Propane or Butane - I can't remember which. As anyone knows who has ever filled up a Butane cigarette lighter, that stuff gets damn cold so I can see how it could work. My question is what about a front end collision resulting in your A/C system exploding into flames.

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The iso butane etc as a replacement has been around awhile and I share your concerns. As I understand it, some have been using various formulations just as if it were fully approved. I believe that was one of the hazards or substances mentioned as subject to a fine if found in contaminating a shops recovery system -- to say nothing of the danger to a poor unsuspecting mechanic or owner not knowing he's dealing with the stuff.