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Well, a spade is a spade. No mudslinging, just the plain and simple truth.

Turbopackman's "plain and simple truth":

I'm a villain
I'm comparable to Hitler and Stalin
I'm involved in a conspiracy in partnership with organized Packard clubs.

Thank you for setting me straight.

No, I'm just saying that you have dictatorial tendencies. And you wonder why people don't want anything to do with you, your beer business, or your forum.

Sounds like we have a lot in common.

Not in the least. I for one don't dictate what people can or cannot say about anything anywhere. You on the other hand, do. I prefer that people have a word on vendors, whether or not they are trustworthy, you prefer to only approve those who line you/your club's pockets. Also, I consider the members of Packard Info kinda like the U.S. was in the late 1700's, moving away from dictatorial powers that be, and onto our own independence. This website gets under you skin so bad because we can do and say things here that you cannot control, and since you're all about control, it really irks you. You have a need to control, a real desire to put people under your thumb. You can't do it here, so why don't you just kindly leave, and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.

We threw out your tea, so leave us be!

Great advice.

PeterG -

I think you know that I try to base my case more on the objective than the subjective - though it's often a blurry line that separates the two.

Yes, some level of moderation may be necessary, but for quite sometime the Packard DF had no official moderator whatsoever. We pretty much settled our own differences of opinion (and were once held up as an example of that by a site admin in another AACA Forum, IIRC). Once in awhile, a site admin chimed in at the Packard DF with some food for thought and nothing more than that. We follow that same good old model here, and I feel that it works better. Yes - there are times when BigKev has to step in, since he's technically the site owner, but it's not that often.

Problem is, moderation not only became official in the Packard DF at the AACA site, but also had the appearance of being highly biased and often personal.

Now, telling someone to go somewhere else if they don't like the way the Forum is being run hardly compares to the PFH situation. PFH actually has a few supporters within the AACA Forums, but - IMHO - he generally does little more than bash: 1) PMCC in its post-WWII form (when people like Nance ought to be applauded for keeping a tired old company afloat as long as they did), 2) any Packard that doesn't fit his personal preference in motorcars, 3) and anyone that likes either of the first two. As such, any friend of PFH is no friend of mine. However, others that you may feel have had a negative impact on your Forum have actually contributed quite a lot to the discussion and the greater good of the hobby - as well as generate plenty of genuine interest in your Forums. Some have even received awards from other clubs for their efforts in support of the hobby.

As for Misc Chat, I'm sure you did take great pleasure in eliminating it, but you know it had been in the Board's crosshairs for quite some time. Yet, that hasn't stopped the flame wars over there. In fact, you quickly had you hands full over at the BCA Forum last December when you started deleting threads regarding Pearl Harbor.

IMHO, there's nothing said in this Forum that you wouldn't hear at a car show. All things considered, I've seen a lot worse behavior erupt on the fields at Fall Hershey than in the AACA Forums or here, at P'info.

Anyway, I hope you'll keep watching P'Info as the best is yet to come.

Time for one of these. Take two, they're small.

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John, forgive me but,...

Peter, my problem with you stems solely with your "Packard people a bunch of whiners" thread you and Burgess and several others were posting in on the Moderator's Forum in the AACA. Remember when you accidentally gave us access to it? I sure as heck do. When I made your comments known publicly that's when the stuff hit the fan. Since then, you have tried anything possible to get rid of us, and when I decided to just leave, I get my entire line of posts deleted, along with several other member's, members who were totally innocent in it all. I'm honestly surprised that any of them came back at all, but I guess your two-faced ways and dictatorial attitude doesn't bother them.

As for you being compared to Hitler, Stalin, etc, well it was all done in satire, and I think most of the people here understand that. And, it wasn't YOU in particular, just a general consensus of the whole of AACA leadership in general. You have to understand that if someone has a bad experience with a vendor who sells to the collector car market, by God someone should say something about it. The reverse is also true. By controlling your members thoughts and words you are no better than any dictator in history, IMHO. And besides, if the pics of Hitler and Stalin offend you, then this one is directed specifically at you:

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T'packman wrote: "You have to understand that if someone has a bad experience with a vendor who sells to the collector car market, by God someone should say something about it. The reverse is also true. "

PRECISELY!!!!