Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Thank you still again, Howard. The picture is really helpful as I have a visual mind and seeing how the OEM is set up will be very helpful when I talk with Newport.

Good point about the lever. I definitely want to make any modifications I make to the car easily reversible so that some future custodian can revert if they wish to. I've got a whole bunch of knobs, levers and such from sundry makes that I've collected over the years and I wouldn't be surprised if I can come up with a lever that looks close but whose modification, if necessary, won't matter.

I really appreciate the pictures of the OEM setup and the Newport parts. I can now really imagine the alternatives.

Jim,
I did the electric wiper motor conversion on my '55 400 and am very happy with the results. I too live in OR and needed my wipers to work. I bought it from Newportwipers.com and it bolted right in. The only modification I did was to grind down the bezel ring that controls wiper arc. I did this to keep the knob as original looking as possible. Brian

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Hi Brian,

Thank you so very much for the feedback and the pictures!
With your post, I have decided that electric is the way I want to go as well. As an Oregonian, you know how much the delay feature that's available can help. Did you go for the delay?

Your 400 looks very nice and the wiper control looks perfectly stock to me.

I see you are on the Oregon Coast. I think you get even more rain than we do in Portland,

Thanks again -

Jim

Jim,
Glad to be of assistance. I have gotten so much from this web sight, it feels good to give back. I did not opt for the delay. My motor is a two speed. As UN-aerodynamic as these cars are, wind takes care of most of the rain when it's not to heavy.
You're right, I live on the Oregon coast and we really enjoy our "sun breaks", as the weathermen call them, when they do pass through.
My car will be in the Forrest Grove Concours d'Elegance July 15th. Stop by and say hello if your in the area.
Brian

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I always try to make it to Forrest Grove for that event. Now I'll have even more incentive: Looking forward to meeting you and your Packard.

By the way gang, Last Friday morning I got the call from my mechanic that at long last my '55 Patrician (AKA Sleeping Beauty) was ready for me to pick up. Unfortunately, I'd already committed to fill in for someone at work that day. As it turned out; it didn't matter. An hour later, he called back and asked if I hadn't rebuilt the master cylinder. As said that I'd cleaned it up and vacuumed out all the "chaff" that was formerly brake fluid but that I hadn't rebuilt it as I was going to leave that to them. My next words were:

"Why do you ask?!?!?!"

It seems that they were backing it out of it's inside parking place and "Look Ma, no brakes!. My mechanic then asked, "Is this the reason you said that the first thing you wanted taken care of was to make the E-brake 100% dependable?" YES!

So much for communication. Anyway, the E-brake stopped the Packard before anything got damaged and I ordered the complete Master Cylinder rebuild kit from Max Merritt for $95. This is the kit that covers both the Vacuum Side as well as the Hydraulic. My Mechanic should get it tomorrow. Monday I drove out with the spare unit I bought on e-bay and we'll use the best of both for the rebuild.

We've also come up with a "back-up" for the compensator valve. We've built a remote fill with the outlet on the bottom of the container with the line going to the MC. On the lid of the reservoir we've installed a fluid back flow preventer that I found. The theory of this is that whenever the original reservoir gets low, gravity will top it off. Should the compensator valve fail to seat the back flow preventer will seal off the brake fluid's escape forcing the fluid to go to it's original destination.

I'm also planing to install a "low fluid" switch which will be hooked to a buzzer under the dash to warn if the remote reservoir is getting low on brake fluid.

I really was hesitant to bring this up as the last thing I want is to re-start the "Great Treadle-Vac Wars".

We also will be doing a intense post mortem of the unit that failed on the car. I will report back all that we found out.

I know that this isn't a safe as a two circuit brake system but I've got to financially digest the bill I know is waiting for me before I deciding whether to go with a different system. A footnote: Last week the master cylinder on my '95 Town Car failed - both front and rear. My mechanic said he'd never heard of such a thing happening before but there I was!

There is a vacant shopping center near me with a big empty parking lot. The first Sunday morning I have my '55 back, I'm taking it to that lot and getting know my E-brake and practice using it until it becomes second nature.

Well, more news as it happens-

Jim L. in OR

We've also come up with a "back-up" for the compensator valve. We've built a remote fill with the outlet on the bottom of the container with the line going to the MC. On the lid of the reservoir we've installed a fluid back flow preventer that I found. The theory of this is that whenever the original reservoir gets low, gravity will top it off. Should the compensator valve fail to seat the back flow preventer will seal off the brake fluid's escape forcing the fluid to go to it's original destination.


Very ingenious. For sure, keep us posted on how it develops and some more details. Sounds like it would be a nice addition but hopefully you never will get a chance to test it. Would be nice if that large parking lot could be turned into a test track but unfortunately no easy way to disable the valve on the fly. What kind of preventer and level sensor did you use?

One thing I'd wonder about is the gasketing for the lid. With that narrow rim all around for the seating surface, did you use something special or did your mechanic feel the stock cork was going to be strong enough to retain the pressure. I measured 800 out of the BTV with 100 on the pedal so give or take 600 - 1000 psi will be in the reservoir with brakes applied if the valve fails.

Hmmmm.

Sorry it took so long to post but I came down with food poisoning Friday and have just started feeling well enough to get to the 'ol PC. I'm going to have to show your post to Owen (that's the name of my mechanic - not Owen on the list). I know that I wasn't aware of the pressure being that high. Perhaps a modified lid and lid gasket with a steel hold down strap like on the '70s Lincoln MC and others. Thinking while I type I suppose one way to check it would be to rebuild the spare B-T-V and hook it up to vacuum and leave the compensator valve out, push down on the rod and see what happens.

The back-flow preventer is part of a high efficiency gas furnace which is what gave me the idea. The current valve is made from "brake fluid impervious" plastic. If that doesn't work, another friend who is machinist with a medical device company that makes artificial heart valves and such has gotten interested and is looking into making one from scratch.

Anyway, I will definitely keep everyone posted on our progress.

Thank you for the feedback Howard, I'll be coming to you and the rest of the group again.

Hope you get to feeling 100% soon.

MPB says a minimum of 400 psi is needed to slow and stop an average car. I know that in the process of doing my little exercise, 400 doesn't cut in on a Packard -- slows, yes. Stop in a panic -- dream on. 400 barely keeps it still when putting it in gear. As mentioned, I measured 800psi with 100 on the pedal with the BTV using 21 inches of vacuum from an external source. My Packard actually has a bit less vacuum so pressure would be somewhat less.

Considering you are usually not going to stand on the pedal, then I think 600 is reasonable for an average controlled stop. Of course, if the compensating valve goes out, you will be standing, pulling, swearing and maybe soiling the upholstery so who knows for sure how much will be present then. Since pressure couldn't vent or get back to the reservoir thru the backflow valve, then all will be felt. The BTV having the ram displacement to move fluid instead of a piston kind of messes up the ordinary comparison calculations.

Several places have brass or steel check valves which will contain the pressure. Problem I see with those is they pretty much all take a minimum of 2psi to open the valve. Would wonder if fluid could pass into the reservoir at all with that minimum. McMaster has a fairly decent assortment if the backflow preventer you have or your friend isn't able to improve needs to change.

Here are a couple of photos. First is off the MPB website with their statement of pressures. Second is of BTV pressures I documented when first contemplating my still ongoing project.

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Thank you Howard for sharing the information you've gathered. I'm going out to the shop Tuesday and I'll take your test results with me to show my mechanic. You have no doubt saved us time we would have otherwise spent "re-inventing the wheel".

I was/am concerned as to how brake fluid would flow from the remote to the original reservoir with the back-flow valve in place. Clearly there is a lot more to this that I originally figured. So I really appreciate your taking the time to share the results of you experience.

Hopefully, we'll be able to do the post-mortem Tuesday.