Packard Forum Index » ZIS, ZIL, and other Packard Cousins!

Baloney. Horse feathers. The "jury is not out". A ZIS is a ZIS. It is what some Russian engineers at the ZIS (again, loose translation STALIN MOTOR WORKS) came up with after examining a REAL Packard.

Let's try it again. Packard HAD NO DIES FOR BODIES. Their car bodies were built by BRIGGS. Their chassis frames were made by AO Smith. Gemmer made the steering gear. Packard did not make its own pot metal decorative fittings - look CLOSELY st them - they were purchased from industry suppliers, like most everything else on post 1939 Packards.

Were Russian engineers good at "reverse engineering". They durn well had to be. If "Uncle Joe" wanted something that LOOKED something like an American luxury car, guess what would happen to you if you didnt compy,...!

CKD was the standard abbreviation in the auto industry for overseas shipments that were partially dis-assembled, so that local workers could re-assemble them, and thus avoid very high import tarrifs. It is simply an abbreviation for "CONTAINER - KNOCKED DOWN".

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(added later - sorry guys - you all answered this turkey very well - didnt see your answers or I wouldnt have taken up space repeating what John and the rest of you said so very well....!) my apologies !

3 questions:

1. What is the diameter of a Zis head stud???
2. what is the diameter of a Packard head stud.
3. A PACKARD cylinder head is about 34.5 inches long???

The Zis head is 1 cm longer than a Packard head.

I am expecting the Zis head studs to be about .025 to .035 inch larger diameter than the Packard head studs.

Guscha. THe Zis hood ornament is beautiful. Do they make it in Green or gold??? One would look real good on the hood of my 56 Executive. I like things that are different.

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Guscha, thanks. Between your description and Rusty O\'Toole's links, have learned considerable today.

Questions on the hood ornament. Is the star embedded, or on surface of plastic and is it illuminated?

Speaking of copying American designs... the head of body design for the English Standard company reported that near the end of WW2 the owner of the company instructed him to begin sketching some new models for the postwar period. This in spite of the fact that under government regulations, no new work was permitted at that time. So all such work had to be done under the table.

The boss wanted him to look at the latest American design trends, as the US had the newest cars - they did not stop producing new designs until 1942, compared to 1939 for England.

He went to the part of London where the American Embassy and military headquarters were located. There he sketched the latest American cars, in fear of being arrested by the police as a spy, with his sketch pad in his hands!

The result was the Standard Vanguard. This car has a vague resemblance to the Fords and Plymouths that inspired it, but what it looks most like is a bathtub Packard that started smoking too young!

The Standard Vanguard:

motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/1118/

The designer was accused of copying American cars. Which in a sense was true. But as he said, "If you want to call the Vanguard a copy, then all cars are the same".

It is possible the ZIS designers followed a similar process at about the same time. If the US had the latest and best luxury cars, it only made sense for the designer of the ZIS to study the state of the art before sitting down at his drawing board.

This is quite a fascinating study. Over the years, practically every car maker has been "inspired" by someone else and in many cases it is possible to trace the influence from one to the other.

The Soviet version of the United States Space Shuttle. The Russian's named it the Buran meaning snow storn.


John F. Shireman

I know how the thing got its name...see...some German guy who had a '42 180, was driving around in Russia.. came upon the Russian car...said...."VAS IS ZISS ?"

Peter, i've often wondered about that.
The Germans pronounce the letter "W" like the english letter "V" then how do they pronounce the letter "V" itself??? Like an english "W" maybe???

And if that is the case, then how did the English manage to get it backwards???