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That's why I sold my Honda 750!

Peter: In last post your wrote something about Packard taking cash out that could have been used for product development.

Here are some of Packard expenses between 1946 and 1956

$4 million lose in 1946

$2.5 million spent to obtain a plant to make jet engine castings

$8.5 million for tooling expenses for 48 through 50 Packard

$7 million to develop ultramatic

$9 million a year in extra employe benefits to settle strike

$18.5 million tooling costs for 1951 Packards

$12 million for development cost of the Packard V8 engine

$17 million spent on tooling and costs to obtain defense contracts.

$4.5 million for development of gear start ultramatic and moving transmission production to Utica

How about giving a dollar figure on how much cash Packard took out that could have been used for product development.

John F. Shireman

Peter: Concerning the quality of post war Packards. I am sure that if my late friend Brad Berry was alive today, he would sure be learning many new things about Packard that he hadn't known before, after reading your posts. Then after reading your posts, he would be calling you every dirty name in the book.

With the exception of making me very aware of the problems with the 55 and 56's Packards, he certainly no complaints about the quality of Packard's built from 46 through 54.

I spent many hundreds of hours of quality time with Brad over the years. Never any complaints about such things as broken axle problems concerning Packards, or lousy build quality of the Packard bodies.

Let me go over Brad Berrys qualifications concerning Packards. Brad's mother, father, and Brad owned a Packard dealership for better than 20 years. Selling new and used Packards, and servicing Packards over the same span of time.

Concerning Brads mechanic ability relating to working on Packards. He was a Packard Master Mechanic and displayed that plaque proudly on his office wall for all to see.

His accounts of what Packard was are certainly different than yours. He just wasn't some back yard mechanic who worked on used cars, or sat outside of Packard Dealerships.

I believe what Brad had to say about post war Packards, before I believe you.

John F. Shireman

wont work, John - see, unlike you, I have actually LOOKED underneath the front end of a '53 Packard, then compared its cheapo shoddy bumper and grill bracing with a Cadillac, Olds 98, or Buick of the same years.

wont work, John, see...unlike you, I KNOW how flimsy the '53 Packard hood is, compared to a GM car of the same year.

wont work, John, see..I have owned probably one or two more post-war Packards than you, probably more '53 Patricians than you. And I also owned a couple of '53 Cadillacs. Know EXACTLY what they can do.

John - suggest you help us all out by sharing your very rich literature collection with us - you apparently have aquired some very interesting stuff that helps us all learn more. Sure, some of it is utter malarky, but that's life. Very easy to separate the malarky from the facts - I can do that for you, since you obviously dont know the real world details. But that isnt your fault. And I cant take credit for the good luck to have "been there".

John - get real. No matter how many people you talk to, wont change the ever more lousy build quality of Packards towards the end. The worse they got, the worse sales fell.

John, I dont know about the figures you submitted - been some time since I saw actual Packard figures, some of which were absolute nonsence.

The Ultramatic was a total failure and disaster. Fragile, unreliable, NO SPEED transmission which turned average-performing post war Packards into utter DOGS. Whatever they spent on it was a waste. They SHOULD have negotiated with GM to buy Hydramatics. A Hydramatic was a FOUR speed tranny that provided a nice super low for fast "off-the-line" starts, so that a car could have a nice high gear ratio for comfortable crusing. Unfortunately, Packard chose to make the bell housings so damn wierd, it would be just about impossible to adopt a hydrmatic.

I dont know about the figures you claim Packard spent to do the exterior sheet metal on the '41 Clippers, to convert the outside shape to "bath-tubs", selling that design clear thru the 1950 model year. Same body - just some exterior "skin" changes. Oh yes, and the fresh-air heating system introduced in '48. That wasnt bad.

John - here's an idea. Go out to that '53 Patrician of yours, and yell at it REAL loud " I KNOW A GUY WHO WORKED ON PACKARDS". Let me know if it helps reenforce that fragile front end, or improves its pick-up ?

(for those who are wondering what this is all about, sad but true that Packard went from just about the FASTEST cars in any price range it chose to compete in, to the SLOWEST - somewhere I have an old road test showing about the only post-war car slower than a '53 Packard with Ultramatic...was a 1949 Chevrolet with PowerGlide !).

Well I think be have beated this horse to death, brought him back to life, and beat him back to death again.

Also Pete, none of the folks here want to here over and over how their Post War Packard, Ultramatic equipted Packard, or any other Packard that doesnt comply with your strict standards is piece of crap in your opinion. If you are looking to put people down, then please go somewhere else to it. There are enough negative things in this world, and I prefer to have this website be a little oasis where people can get away from that.

So lets move on to more postive lines of conversation. With that...thread locked.