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Sorry moderator. Like I said, it is inches thick, and I would wear out several scanners putting all that data on line. Don't ask me how I know that! Cheap scanners ain't that hot.

Peter, I'm sorry you sheared off a perfectly good compensator valve and stem...I know how expensive they are to get, not because they themselves are expensive, but because you have to buy a whole blasted $75 kit to get another one!

I hope others in the group have benefitted from your experience. Push the pedal in before installing the compensator assembly, for Pete's sake (sorry, couldn't resist).

Lastly, I'd like to correct one small mis-statement...lie?...I made. You only have to buy *three* of the four Bendix kits to get all the parts they provide in them. And you still don't get the lousy compensator spring. The major kit has all the parts the minor kit has.

Now, if some group member could kindly reveal where he bought his three Bendix kits, I would find my business here complete and satisfying.

Gauss of the Edsels

What do u use when u need to replace a compensator spring????

I replace it with a compensator spring from another Treadle-Vac...they are all the same at the compensator port. It's good to keep a lot of spare Treadle-Vacs around for spare parts. I always dissassemble and clean them thoroughly of any old brake fluid to help preserve what's not already ruined.

But I have often wondered if there might be an appropriate substitute: perhaps made of more corrosion-resistant material like stainless steel, rubber or plastic.

It's not a complicated part, just a little gentle compression spring to help close the port when the tip of the valve stem is allowed back to vertical by depressing the brake pedal. Once released from the open, tipped state, hydraulic pressure helps to keep the compensator tightly closed against the valve port seat which is part of the threaded fitting.

I've more often wondered what might be done to repair a old compensator poppet valve and stem with the most common malady, an angled flat spot on the sealing surface from sitting open too long. This can happen to any fully assembled Treadle-Vac, even in a plastic bag on a shelf. I make a habit of removing the compensator assembly, and leave it loose on the bottom of the reservoir until installing in it the car. That way, the any flattening will be even over the entire sealing surface, and will not adversely affect the function of the compensator poppet and stem.

You just have to remember to push in a little on the input rod before re-installing it!

Gauss

Gauss -

Sorry I didn't have a chance to revisit this thread sooner, but welcome and thanks for the additional insights (saving me an expedition to my offsite storage).

I can only conclude that Bendix supplied the kits in some sort of tiered/modular fashion so the customer only had to pay for as deep as they had to go. Except for the potential issue of the compensator ports valve spring and pitted hydraulic plunger, I bet repro'd minor kit adresses the overwheming majority of needs.

Personally, I've never needed to overhaul the vacuum section in any of the TreadleVacs in my Packards, but dismantled and cleaned one - mainly out of curiosity. Yet, the seals were in good enough shape that I was able to carefully dismantle and inspect. I massaged the rubber parts with a bit of silicone grease prior to reusing them, and the power-assist worked fine following installation.

IIRC, Craig advised (long ago, in another forum past) that he had the T-V unit from his '55 Pat rebuilt by someone else and shipped it back after the first failure. He experienced a second failure, but I don't know if he sent it back to find out what went wrong. He installed a dual-chambered power brake unit with remote reservoir. Last I heard, Craig claimed that he would destroy TreadleVac cores from any parts cars he laid his hands on. Thankfully, Packard wasn't the only automaker using the T-V unit.

Now, I don't deny anyone the right to do with their property as they please, but in turn, they have no right "dis" on me for what I choose to do with my cars. I'm the kind of person who likes to find out what went wrong, how things were intended to work, and fix 'em myself. Though I'll never make flat-rate time, I've found that my work tends to hold up a lot better than what I've seen from many (so-called) professionals.

Thanks again for the details on the T-V kits.

Gauss -

Not sure who has which three Bendix kits.

I've installed a couple repro kits (purch'd from Kanter), which seems to have the same parts as the original Bendix minor kit.

However, I do have one NOS/NIB Bendix major kit , with its parts still sealed in their original bags. I purchased this kit over 15 years ago from a table at a swap meet in Ohio for just $40. The seller worked on old cars as an extension of a general auto repair shop that he'd operated for decades. He told me he didn't need the NOS kits anymore as they had been repro'd, but I'd only ever seen repros of the minor kits.

I thought the major kit that I have included a lot more than what you listed, but I'm thinking it may have had an additional bag of parts (perhaps inserted by mistake somewhere along its life). On the other hand, my memory could be faded and fuzzy.

Brian, if you can find the kit you bought, post the part number, and I can probably look up the contents for you, and also the application.

No doubt, NOS kits are the cat's pajamas as far as really, really fixing up your Treadle-Vac, but I always, always keep the old parts in an old Band-Aid snap-top tin for emergency use in case I run out of NOS!

Still, certain parts, like that lousy compensator port spring, do not come in any kit.

I recently scored a couple of major kits, and a complete piston packing kit for Hydraulic Reaction Treadle-Vac (the type used in 1957-59 makes and models) from an AMC source.

Buying kits is so often like getting a pig in a poke, whatever that means. Don't ever buy unless you can see the entire contents. I have a FoMoCo piston packing kit that I bought at a swap meet that is short the curved hose!
I didn't know the Ford kit included the hose until I looked it up in the Master parts catalog. Crap! I bought a short kit!

That's all right, though, the hose is usually OK as long as you twist some single strand copper wire around the ends after slipping them onto fittings to hold them in place. I've also heard of using nylon tie-wraps, but you'd better have one of those tie-wrap "guns" that get the fit real tight.

Gauss of the Edsels

Good for you, Brian.

Sorry, I'm replying to your messages in reverse order...I just discovered the earlier one!

I think most, if not all, of the rampant discontent with Treadle-Vacs is based on poor rebuilds by either incompetent or disinterested rebuilders. It's amazing to me why a rebuilder of brake components would risk his livelihood through negligence toward doing the job right. Although, when it comes to Treadle-Vacs, the repair parts are dwindling, so it may be in the best interest of the rebuilders to do a sloppy job...using some perverted way of looking at it!

I'm glad there are others, like you for instance, interested in keeping old cars old...I mean in design, that is! Why bother showing your old iron if it uses modern guts? I still run generators, electro-magnetic clocks with balance spring and escapement, tube radios, and R-12 air-conditioning. It's so much part of the fun and challenge.

And I'm with you on the doing it myself. If I want something done right, I only depend on myself. If I mess it up, I'll go back and figure out why and do it again. Then, if something I fixed messes up on the road, I feel somewhat competant in getting it fixed.

Also, a failed Treadle-Vac is only a tragedy if you don't know to use the emergency brake...remember, they used to call it that...not "parking" brake! Or your emergency brake is not functional...shame on you!

Gauss of the Edsels

Apparently we are all in agreement that there are issues with the compensator port even if it is only parts availability. Especialy the spring.
How can we modify the compensator port to maybe eliminate the need for a spring???? Maybe sleeve the cylinder for a piston and cup seal. Replace the comp port wit h a manual valve???

G'day Gentlemen, With regard to a possible rework of the Compensator Port Assembly, I would suggest that recommending or posting a modification to an OEM brake system, not having a history of failures, may be a big NO NO, in terms of legal liability. It is akin to giving someone legal advice when you are not legally "qualified".
I have 4 spare Treadle - vac cores and I inspected the spring on each today and each was fine. I consider that Gauss has a great idea in that any spare units should have the compensator valve assembly non-assembled to prevent imprinting on the sealing face. I shall do that on a unit which I have recently overhauled.
I am not aware if Bendix still exists today, but if it does and if it continues to market repair kits, then it is the entity holding the Public Liability Insurance for the product. I am NOT legally qualified BUT I urge caution as there may be some DEEP water out there. Best regards Peter Toet

Gauss -

Sorry to be so late in replying, but I've been trying to wrap up another installment in a series of articles for the Cosworth Vega Magazine.

I had been hoping to get out to offsite storage (ahead of turning the clocks back from DST and some foul weather approaching), but it won't happen until next weekend.

IIRC, the kit that I purchased over 15 years ago was billed as covering the 55/56 Packards and I'd authenticated that against a Bendix parts catalog that I later acquired. I'll still dig the kit out and get you the number.

BTW, "poke" is an old term for a sack or the like, and the old saw that you cited warns one not to purchase without the opportunity to examine the goods. (Odd then how many people shop online, eh?)

Meanwhile, I only ever had one ocassion to replace the internal vac supply hose on the TreadleVac - namely because someone had been in there before me and installed some plain fuel hose, which kept slipping off (to hard for the purpose). I transplanted an original, formed hose (in great shape) from a core that I got out of a field car. I masssaged it with a bit of silicone, used no clamps whatsoever, and never had problem with it coming off.

Wire ties might be a good idea, but I don't think they'll need to be much more than finger-tight (on an original, formed hose) if you first clean the inside of the ends of the hose and the corresponding fittings with mild solvent (like alcohol) to ensure a no-slip fit.