Packard Forum Index » ZIS, ZIL, and other Packard Cousins!

My personal view is that is part of the sites name is info which I take to include clones or copies, All manufactures copy to a certain degree the soviet part is interesting to me. The real choice should be BigKev as he is the Master of site

Joel (packards1), in your capacity as Father of the House you couldn't fail to notice that BigKev created years ago a separate corner at PackardInfo.com for the ZIS/ZIL fraction not only to conform to members wishes but also to reflect a Packard connection of historic interest.
Perhaps hard to believe but as one of the residents in the Moscow district of PackardInfo.com over the years I contacted Kevin a couple of times to express my concerns about a potential "contamination" or even sovietization.



Just to allege an example I voted against the ZIS/ZIL expansion into the photo archive to keep its purity of variety. You won't find a Russian manual online, no entry in the Model Info, nothing to find in the Parts X-Ref, zero books in the Bookshelf - all we ever did was to seek (and find) talks within the borders of the forums and in the confines of technical/historical context. At the very moment when one of the ZIS threads became the most frequented thread at the website I asked Kev to close the complete red department because of disproportion and bowed out.
...
To restrict the (optical) brand presence I fanned out my activities to several but miniaturized threads, here and there an information in droplet form instead of daily broadsides. To let questions unanswered for weeks isn't always easy (and everything else than polite) - perhaps a suitable moment to send greetings to Howard (HH56), Keith (PackardV8) and Roger (Randerson), just to mention a few and to say a big thank you to Dave (Owen), Brian (BH), Mal, Dave (JD), Kevin, Randy, Steve, Rusty and many, many others for the inspiring exchange of ideas and tons of fun.
Joel, yesterday it happens that a handful of ZIS related posts came in at one sweep - exceptions prove the rule. It might be possible that their proximity of time has been the sensory stimulus for your post.
Cousins are children of one's aunt or uncle or any relative who shares a common ancestor. I kindly ask you to tolerate them as part of the ambient noise that animates the forum discussions.

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I think Gerd should not worry much about potential "contamination" of this forum by this section. But I say this: there is little literature about ZIS and GAZ 13 and other "Soviet elite" cars and only people like Gerd and those who have worked,owned a vehicle like that can tell of its inner secrets or its design by bolt and screw.
And not many want to tell about what they know for many reasons.
As for the others ZIS car is in my eyes still a Packard although made in russia(soviet union) and why not use this section for reference and debunking all the old myths about Soviet car industry,I ask my self where els can we do it?

I know I am old but "father of the house"? All I am saying is that is this is the "Packard" info site. In the scope of things in life, it really does not matter what the creator wants to include in his site, its all good with me.

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That depends on the definition. Acc. to wikipedia "...the term refers to the oldest member, but in others it refers the longest-serving member...". And when walking almost 80,000 posts back then we find you as first-ever who clicked



Since we are at quantitative milestones the Guinness Book of Records should mention you as the first who uploaded pics to the website and who reported a malfunction. But it is much more important that you are the first who mentioned "Packard" at Packardinfo.com - even before BigKev!
Honor to whom honor is due!

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And just as in the past you accentuate Packard, whereas Al (acolds) emphasized info, a shift of stress which can be traced back to a thread that promised to contain the largest plurality of opinions of all time.


[picture source: Packard Salesmen Data Book]

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For all we know, the US built Packards may have been copies of Zis, Zil and Chaika rather than the other way around. Maybe even a joint effort. THere have been parts identified from time to time that with minor modification it is entirely possible that the parts would interchage between Packard and Russian 'copies'.

I don't know for sure. But calling on my decades of automotive and other vehicle experience it is nearly irrational to think that there was no significant connexion and cooperation between Packard and ZIS/zil/ Chaika.

Bravo Gerd! I with the others when it comes to the Soviet era Packard cousins.. I thoroughly enjoyed all of your posts and really admire your hard work!

I would like to see a manual or the pictures from same as I will be the first to admit I cannot read Russian but pictures or ilustration speak all languages, A lot of engineering answers do not change when crossing borders. more than one way to do a job camshaft chains or gears do Same job just a different way. These are the type of things I like to see how different engineers solve the same problem even the changes made to update a design

Thanks for the good words everybody!
Al, to come up to the expectations of both wings and weighting to the respective interests I try to show you every once in a while a well dosed portion ... albeit far from the officialese but sometimes even better understandable than in Russian.


BTW I've recently been successful in finding a batch of related material, typed in wartime (1945).

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The ZIL-ZIS-GAZ vehicles are of interest to me as well just because of the copycat properties if nothing else and think a section devoted to these cars are justified. Shouldn't feel bad about a disproportionate visitation because I am sure people who visit and post at the ZIL forum also look around in other folders and the website gets it exposure.

I am always interested in the frames-chassis of the various models.

Does anyone have photos or charts of the later ZIL models - such as the model 115, 117 and later chassis?

Thanks!
Eric