Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Although I don't use it, I want to Electromatic clutch to work properly as it should on my car. It does work, but not properly. I am assuming the problem is in the various adjustments or the electrical, since it performs all the correct operations. I wanted to first test the electric components.
I have been looking at the Electromatic manual (I think I downloaded from this site) and it goes through a series of tests for the electrical system of the electromatic clutch. It tells what should be happening at various test points throughout, but does not say what it means if the condition is NOT met.
For instance, the first test is for the low and reverse switch. After hooking up the 6 volt test lamp, the lamp should burn when in 1st or reverse, and it should go out in neutral. Mine burns constantly no matter what position the shifter is in. I don't know if this means the switch is bad, if the low/reverse solenoid is bad or if it means the three unit relay is bad. Or, is there something on the shifter or linkage I should be checking?
I am wondering if anyone out there has a manual with greater detail that might help fill in the blanks.

Assuming you mean the Electromatic clutch manual for 19th & 20th series from Oct 46,packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/article/view.article.php?45, that is probably as good as you'll find. There are some procedures in Motors manuals but probably not as detailed.

Assuming yours has the 8 terminal relay box, looking at the first step to connect the light to BA and LR, I would suspect the switch. To rule out the other things you mentioned, disconnect the wire from LR and connect the light to BA & the wire only. That just leaves the switch in the circuit and if it still fails, then it's bad or needs adjusting or wire is shorted.

Yes, that is exactly right. I will proceed as you suggest.
Thank you.

This worked great! Once I isolated the switch, the test worked as it should and the light only burned in first and reverse, extinguishing in neutral.
I will work through the rest of the tests, making sure to isolate the components as much as possible.

Does the fact that it did NOT work when I had the switch connected to the LR indicate that I have a problem with the 8 terminal relay? It seems that the circuit must be closed somewhere. My understanding of relays is pretty rudimentary, but it looks like the three relays are wired together inside, so I assume that if one of the other switches is bad (closed), it could close the circuit and produce the results I initially had (circuit closed in all positions of the shifter). I'll test the other components separately. If none of them is bad, I assume I may have a problem with the relay itself?

BTW, looking for page 17 of the training manual, which seems to be excluded from the upload. It is at the end of the testing of the electric circuits that I need to perform. Anyone have a scan of that page?

Thanks

missing page. Maybe Kev can insert it in the proper place.

Here is a scan of the schematic with a bit better resolution. It is possible the light was "fooled" by feedback through the relay although I would have thought it might have been a bit dimmer at the point that happened. Most likely circuit, assuming the relays are OK, is thru the L&R coil and EC coil. Ground would be through the closed acc switch and normally closed governor EC contacts. The direct switch is also a possibility if defective. To prove it, disconnect the wires on EC and see if it still lights at neutral. If it does, then there are several possibilites but would involve one of the relay contacts being closed.

Attach file:

---

Size: 448.57 KB; Hits: 101

  (66.74 KB)

HH56
Thanks for supplying page 17! Now I know the remaining tests to perform on the electrical.

I took time last night to work through some of this. I followed the testing in the sequence set forth in the training manual.
Here is what I found:

Switches
Low and reverse.....OK
Direct speed........OK
Accelerator.........OK
Second speed........OK
Lockout.............Failed
Governor............Appeared to fail (based solely on the color of the wires, it appeared the results were exactly opposite of expected - burn at AD terminal, no burn at EC terminal. My wires are all gathered in a taped loom, so I can't trace back.)
Can the Electromatic clutch even operate if these are reversed? I am a little hesitant to just cross the wires. Would this affect the OD?

Solenoid
Low and reverse.....OK
Direct speed........Unable to perform the test - the wires to my solenoid are of a different color than those specified in the manual.
Second Speed and second speed circuit - Unable to perform. I am not on jacks, so access is tough, and I was unsure which solenoid at the trans is the second speed switch vs. the low and reverse. I think the second speed is the one on the passenger side of the trans. I'll do these remaining test this week end.

I did each test in order, but assumed each was stand-alone. That is, if I disconnected a wire for a test, I reconnected it before proceeding to the next test. Hopefully, this was right.

I am wondering if the lockout switch failure or the apparent reversed wiring of the Governor switch could be related to a recent trouble with my OD.
My OD died about a month ago. Prior to that, it worked fine except that I would occasionally hear a "buzzing" when the OD light would come on, which would end when I released the pedal and the drop into OD would occur.
When I started the above tests, I first replaced my OD fuse, which was fried.
Last night I drove the car for the first time since replacing the fuse.
The car went into OD as it should, with no buzzing sound noted when the OD light came on, but it immediately (maybe two seconds later) popped back out of OD and would not re-engage into OD, although the dash indicator light remained lit. I am assuming that the OD Solenoid is bad, as it was replaced with another well-used one about a year ago. I have not pulled it yet. But the original was cooked at the time of replacement.
Does the failure of the lockout switch or the Governor affect the OD, or are they two completely different systems?

My 47 has a different veriso E.clutch than your 41 so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice . If the wires to the governor are reversed the O/D solenoid would be grounded and energized until the car reached the point where the points on the governor closed which would then ground the E.clutch which is the opposite of what you want. The failure of the governor or the lock-out switch definitely will affect the operation of the O/D. I had a governor that had a bad set of points and when the O/D should have engaged I would get a machine gun effect as the solenoid rapidly engaged and disengaged. Cleaning the point set fixed the problem.

There should be two lockout switches and one will not affect the other--just will prevent that particular function it controls from operating. The OD switch is on the lockout handle and the EC should be in dash labeled clutch or trans.

Randy Clipper47 is correct in the governor description and wiring-- if those are wrong, neither should be working. Standing still, the governor provides ground to the clutch relay EC so that is operational until it reaches speed. At that time, contacts switch and ground is supplied to overdrive to light the light and prepare solenoid while at same time EC relay drops out so clutch is no longer able to work. Here is a pict of a Packard governor showing the wires for each and location.

EDIT: My apologies to Clipper 47 for calling him Randy instead of Dave. That's what happens when down to one brain cell & miss your nap.

Attach file:

---

  (31.06 KB)

You guys are a wealth of knowledge and a great help. I will further investigate this tonight, but it does sound like the Governor can't be reversed.
Thanks for the pictures as well.

The symptom Randy Clipper47 pointed out as a machine gun effect does sound similar to what I was experiecing before the fuse blew. Right now I have the OD handle out to keep it disengaged until I figure out the problem, but I think this gives me a good place to start looking.

I really appreciate the help. I'm sure I'll be back.

My apologies to Clipper47 as well, I don't the names of too many of the forum people yet. I do appreciate everyone's help

The chatter you hear is your solenoid Pull In coil going on and off very fast. Whitch may mean that your Hold In coil is not woorking. Check all the contacts inside the solenoid.
Greg