Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

I happen to be one of those "older" guys, was actually BORN in a Packard, and have just a little bit of hands-on as well as technical background on bearing issues as they relate to pre-war Packards.

I also have an extremely SHORT fuse and NO patience with those who put their mouths in gear before letting out the clutch on their brain - for the simple reason is I really LOVE Packards, and truly HATE it when a Packard owner is mis-led into turning what SHOULD be an incredibly reliable, capable, well-engineered product into unpleasant-to-drive unreliable junk.

There is NO debate on the absurdity of using "poured babbit" for connecting rod bearings, especially in pre-war Packards. It is a DIS CREDITED proceedure, ABANDONED as being WHOLLY UNSATISFACTORY in ANY automotive engine today.

With this qualification. If you have NO use for your Packard other than as costume jewelery, to be displayed at car shows, and trailored back and forth, AND YOU WILL BE HONEST and WARN A PURCHASER your car is not fit to actually drive, THEN and ONLY then can I see the point in using poured babbit for engine rod bearing material.

If any of you have a serious interest in how fragile poured babbit is, how unsuccessful it became as the highways of the 1930's permitted higher speeds, see what you can research about "Opening Day" of the Penn. Turnpike in the late 1930's. To summarize, a lot of people thought it was a LOT of fun on opening day, to go tearing over the new expressway, and as a result, a lot of tow trucks had a lot to do !

Guys,

This is all very educational but what I would like to know is: can anybody recommend a mechanic/machine shop with experience in these conversions, preferably in the Southwest? Send me a PM, I'm dying to know!

Thanks in advance,

Scott

All the information is quite helpful. Yes, I have to admit the car Russell is referring to is my 34, I guess at the moment she has seen better days. The car (since restored) had only done 2500 miles before the tappets began tapping. Then a loud banging noise began in the engine. I limped the car to the mechanics (i know I should have turned the car off as soon as I heard the noise)

A hard lesson learned. Now the big rebuild begins. I now have a bettter idea of what to do in regards to bearings.

I will let you all know how the rebuild goes

Kind regards,
Mathew

G'day Mat, Tough break as I know that you would be lucky to exceed 55 mph in the car. I have plenty of spare babbited rods available to you if you need them, but you may as well hang out for the shells. Both of my 38 Supers have babbited rods after rebuilds and I am careful to keep the bearing loads down. I am running 8.25 X 16 tyres on the rear and keep under 55 MPH at all times. I have not had any problems yet, but am going to convert all of my Supers to the shells when they become available again. I am running HUGE commercial 17 inch radials on the 35 Super with a 4.41 rear end and have fitted my 5th Series with a 4.38 rear end. I remember when I started driving in the Sixties that I passed everything on the road at 60 mph in my Packard 115C, Nowadays the 600 hp B Double trucks tend to push me up the hills in the slow lane with their pressure wave at 60 mph. Best Regards, Peter Toet.

RE - "babbit" in '38 Super Eight con rods.

PLEASE SHUT THAT THING OFF AND DONT DRIVE IT. I MEAN IT. THIS IS NO JOKE.

Here's the problem. The '35 and later Packards of ALL series had connecting rods designed for "slipper" or "insert' type precision bearings. Thus the "big end" hole is larger than the earlier rods that came from the factory with poured babbit.

That means the layer of soft bearing material when you pour babbit into '35 and later rods, IS MUCH THICKER, and thus MUCH MORE FRAGILE.

When it goes, and it WILL go, it comes off in big sheets, leaving you with a ruined crank-shaft. You DONT want to know what happens when you ruin a "senior" Packard crank-shaft. The balance weights have to come off. This involves a long technical discussion that would put most of our readers to sleep.

There is a REASON why the "poured babbit" method is discredited and consigned to the trash dump of history. It is bad enough when you try it on con rods that were designed for it.

To summarize the technical problem, the stroke of the eight cyl. Packards is FIVE INCHES ! The intertial/centrifgual loads on those crank "big ends" is horrific compared to a modern engine. If that isnt bad enough, given the low gear rratios of senior Packards, the Packard engine with a stock geared car is turning over probably TWICE the rpm of a modern vehicle at the same speed.

Thus the shock loadings on that babbit material, even at 30 mph, in a stock geared senior Packard, is MANY times more severe than on a modern car at wide open throttle.

DONT RUIN THAT CRANK-SHAFT...SHUT THE THING OFF, and LEAVE it off until you can fix those rods right with INSERT-type bearings.

(take this from someone who just might know what they are talking about..and just might have just a little experience from just a few years of working on pre war Packards....!)

NEW DEVELOPMENTS...

Whilst talking to my brother I thought back and remembered the engine in the 34 is not a 34 engine. In its earlier life as a young lady she was involved in an accident involving a cow which damaged the front end and required a new engine. The engine was replaced with a 1936 engine no: 392916. Meaning from what I can gather should have had slipper bearing not babbit yet this appear to be what was used. now, I know that many of these engines were pretty much built with simillar if not the same specs. So would it be correct to say the best option here would be to try and locate slippers and install them. As this is a 36 engine, im hoping this should make things a bit easier.

Thanks,
Mat

G'day Matt, Yes, Yes, Yes, Hang out for the slippers in the rods. I have been waiting years for them to becoe available again. Best Regards Peter Toet

Hi Peter,

Well if you've been waiting years for the slippers I don't like my chances of finding any

Regards,
Mat

Even better if you have the later rods ready to accept the insert (slipper) bearings. I suggest you get in line behind Peter, who is directly behind Joe. Who is Joe? Ask Peter.

G'dat all, especially Matt, I am fairly sure that I have a set of the later rods for you. They have all been babbitted and will need removal of the babbit. Even the reconditioned (with a paint brush) 38 Super engine I got in from Little Rock, Arkansas in 1993 (?) had babbitted big end bearings. I am confident that the person with the greatest need will probably get any shells first. Best regards, Peter Toet