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Gerardo, I'm with you on the Audi. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be going to my nearest Audi dealership to buy one of these: Audi W12

Nice choice Turbo, better than others:

http://jalopnik.com/5202303/gm+segway-puma-first-ride

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Don, it depends on how big those lottery winnings would be, if not to big, I'll have to choose my new car appropriately:


I would rather go vintage if that's the case:




Notice that this is a HUDSON Metropolitan, not that lowly "Nash" version!

HUDSON all the way!!

Vintage small cars are fun.

My grandfather ran a Richfield station many years ago, and somebody broke down at his station driving an old Simca. He couldn't get parts for it right away, so they traded him for an old car out back he had that sill ran.

He fixed it and drove it for years as a parts runner. It had turn signals made of wood, and when you pulled the chain in the car, the turn signals on the car would lift out which way you were turning!

Now, back to the more serious topics of Fiat & Cadillac.

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Gerardo: Just to let you know that a good S&P are badly wanted and sought by companies like Fiat no matter what the economic situation is. If you think other wise then you are dreaming.

The only thing that a junk rating may do for Fiat as stated may well help them out concerning Chrysler debt. If Fiat has problems in 2009 and 2010 in paying debts coming due as S&P stated that it may have trouble in doing so, they are in-trouble plain and simple. Having a poor S&P rating doesn't help them out with the other big problems that Fiat faces.

It seems that many governments in the EU are giving money and support to European car makers thought the back door.
Proof of that is in your post on scrapping subsidies being provided by EU governments. Without these subsidies I just wonder how flat the car sales would be in Europe.

In an interview I read that Marchionne did a short time ago, he gave his views on the auto industry. He stated that in a couple of years there would only six maker around the world. It was also stated by him that for a car manufacture to survive it would have to have annual production of between 5.5 and 6 million vehicles. Fiat and Chryslers production at this time only totals 4.5 million units a year. It kind of sounds like to me that if Fiat is unable to join forces with Chrysler they may not be around in a couple of years. Even with a partnership with Chrysler they still have big mountain to climb.

I got to look at a new Audi the other day and to me in real life the styling is very bland to me. The front end treatment looks like a dying fish with its mouth open sucking for air. I would certainly purchase an Audi over anything that is offered in the Fiat auto lineup.

Fiat SPA doesn't have a four door sedan in its line up that offers the performance of the CTS-V. I happen to like the styling of the CTS.

John F. Shireman

Please tell us of the last car from Fiat that you have inspected. Thanks.

In the meantime... just a few of the cars from Fiat that even Audi owners dream of owning:

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=fiat.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/fiat.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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"Fiat SPA doesn't have a four door sedan in its line up that offers the performance of the CTS-V. I happen to like the styling of the CTS."

Personally I'd take any Alfa 159 over the CTS even if the CTS has more power etc. The CTS is just too tacky looking. That particular kind of flashiness looks down-market to me. I'd certainly even take the up-coming LaCrosse over the CTS.

However: big important sedans are Fiat's real weakness. And that is also a segment that Chrysler needs to develope as well.

Alfa intends to come out with a big sedan... but I doubt that it will happen soon:

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/?action=view¤t=0806_01_z2010_alfa_romeo_169front_t.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/0806_01_z2010_alfa_romeo_169front_t.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I expect that few will find find both ALFA's and Cadillac's styling to their liking, as one is curvy and one is angular. My point is that at least both are identifiable and provoke a reaction. I'm fine with one of you being drawn to Caddy and the other to ALFA.

Audi has a more middle of the road approach, but at least they don't have Chris Bangle. The S-class Mercedes was a big departure - a German company finally accepting that headroom driving a boxy roofline is not an immutable law. The new VW CC is clearly influenced by it.

FIAT doesn't sell a big sedan other than the Quattroporte for a simple reason - there is almost no demand for one in the markets they currently play in. The Germans have most of what market there is.

The European market has for many years had a number of OEM's with similar share (PSA, Renault, VAG, Ford, FIAT) rather than the way the US market used to be dominated by GM. The Japanese OEM share is still much lower than NA. Now that GM is around 25%, as is Toyota, the North American market is looking more like Europe.

"FIAT doesn't sell a big sedan other than the Quattroporte for a simple reason - there is almost no demand for one in the markets they currently play in."

In Italy alone, the bigger Mercedes, Audis and BMWs do very well. There is a lot of wealth and desire for prestige cars. It's a segment that has never been developed by Fiat as it should have been. They did have the Lancia Thema and then the Kappa... they just did not keep up with the competition.

http://foto.officecar.it/42/4278478_1.jpg

Today, Lancia does make the very beautiful Delta which is to be the base for a bigger sedan. We will see.

http://www.lancianewdelta.it/

I think we are only talking about the definition of "big."
The total market for big luxury sedans in Italy is a certain size. The Germans have a large % of it, using cars which they also sell in a number of other markets to amortize costs. The cost/expected share of FIAT SpA playing there (I agree Lancia is the "fit", but the brand image is not strong outside Italy. The rather formal or retro big Lancia is interesting but a bit odd to me))is probably not a great economic case. The US market for such a car is much larger, but also has even more competitors (Lexus/Acura/Infinity are much stronger in US than in Europe). FIAT has chosen to only play in the very high end of it where small volumes are more profitable.

The real entry for FIAT may be to introduce their diesels here (with whatever Chrysler/Dodge/Lancia/FIAT body they choose). There is little competition for diesel - the VW diesel is doing well (although the NA diesel market is tiny compared to Europe)