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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#21
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mikec
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my personal viewpoint is that real Packards ended in 1956. The 57s and 58s were mildly altered versions of cars that had been previously designed under studebaker. I PERSONALLY dont believe that the addition of leftover Packard tail lights and clipper badges made them real Packards.


EDIT: didnt realise i had allready responded to this thread quite awhile ago.

Posted on: 2009/8/1 19:54
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#22
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Joel Ray
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Many years ago at a national Packard meet in Detroit about 150 packards were parked inside the plant on East Grand Blvd. An elderly club member who was a Packard mechanic since 1929 looked at a 1957 model that was parked next to a 1938 senior car and shook his head. He said the 1957 was the "afterbirth". Personally the 1957 and 1958 models were nicer Studebakers and if another lifetime comes around I would like to have one.

Posted on: 2009/8/1 21:22
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#23
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Predictor
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I would say to the detractors who don't consider the 55-56 as real Packards to consider that these were the first cars in many many years which Packard actually built the bodies for (in regular production). Except for some of that "goddamn Senior stuff" (free cookie to whoever can name the person who said that) Packard's bodies were built by Briggs for the longest time, duh.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not deriding the Briggs built cars, just that some people need a different perspective on their criticisms sometimes.

As for the '57-'58 cars, I like them for what they are, but don't really consider them Packards in the sense that they're just skin jobs and don't share any engineering. Instead of Clipper perhaps they should've called them Cimarrons!

Posted on: 2009/9/7 13:34
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#24
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acolds
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A fact often overlooked is that the 57 were designed or modified by the same man who changed the 51 Packard into the 1955-56. He was in charge of making the Studebaker into a clipper if you look at these car closely you can see that he did a wonderful job in a three month time frame with very limited funds. On the engineering front don't forget the Twin Traction.

Posted on: 2009/9/7 13:55
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#25
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dadoc
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With regard to post 28..I believe it was George Christopher who refered to the *^(%$$$# seniors. I would love to read some detailed thoughts as to how Packard...the real Packard could have been saved. Yes it would be conjecture, but it might be interesting. Of course, I have my own ideas...


Do apply some reasonable thoughts to this.

Posted on: 2009/9/7 14:59
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#26
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Predictor
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Quote:

acolds wrote:
A fact often overlooked is that the 57 were designed or modified by the same man who changed the 51 Packard into the 1955-56. He was in charge of making the Studebaker into a clipper if you look at these car closely you can see that he did a wonderful job in a three month time frame with very limited funds. On the engineering front don't forget the Twin Traction.


I understood that the '57-58 cars were designed by Duncan Macrae (sp?) who was a Stude designer and had penned the R series trucks. He used the Clipper taillights, horn button (on a Stude steering wheel) and Senior car instruments. He really did a great job with almost no budget or time to do it in!

TT was developed and built by Dana and AFAIK Packard had no input into the design.

Posted on: 2009/9/7 15:02
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#27
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Quote:

dadoc wrote:
With regard to post 28..I believe it was George Christopher who refered to the *^(%$$$# seniors. I would love to read some detailed thoughts as to how Packard...the real Packard could have been saved. Yes it would be conjecture, but it might be interesting. Of course, I have my own ideas...


Do apply some reasonable thoughts to this.


Yep, Georgie boy was the one who said that and I think it clearly illustrates his GM mass production mentality. Too bad the board of directors didn't replace him with someone after WWII who was more in tune with Packard's philosophy.

I believe that George Mason was about the only person in the industry in a position of import who clearly understood the postwar market conditions that would prevail, namely that the number of manufacturers would contract and that in order to survive several of them would have to combine to pool resources. Packard could not have survived in the long term with their relatively minuscule production as the cost of R&D to keep competitive would've priced the cars out of range. Either they would've had to shrink to Rolls Royce production levels or expanded their offerings into the mid price and with another brand, lower price ranges (which is what Christopher wanted but at the expense of Packard's prestige).

I was going to say "don't get me started" but I guess it's too late! LOL

Posted on: 2009/9/7 15:08
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#28
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beej8508
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error in posting

Posted on: 2009/9/7 15:57
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#29
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Predictor
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The aborted 1957 Packards were designed by him...and therein may lay the confusion. Am pretty darn sure the Packabakers were penned by Duncan Macrae, I know for a fact he was the one who cooked up the Packard Hawk.

As an aside (not that anyone cares), I much prefer the 57's over the 58's as they are a far cleaner design and don't have the off the scale "gorp" factor (to use one of Dick's phrases) which the 58's possess...those double stacked taillights and googly eye quad headlights...egads! Looks like the star one of those typical 50's exploitation movies centered around mutations due to radioactive exposure LOL

Posted on: 2009/9/7 17:51
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Re: Are 57 and 58 Packards really Packards
#30
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BH
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When none of my Packard books are handy, I have often found myself unsure as to who was responsible for designing the 1957 Packard Clipper, but it was Teague.

As a fan of the '55-'56 Packards (and Clippers), I can appreciate the '57 Packard Clipper's reuse of several familiar parts and hallmarks, and Teague's involvement explains the hybrid Junior-Senior appearance of the facelifted Studebaker President shell.

Now, back in the dark days in the bunker, while S-P looke into the building of Packards on Lincoln bodies, Duncan MacRae was exploring the possibility of building Studebakers on Ford shells, but neither program came to fruition. (Funny, but I get a Packard "sensation" from the '58-'60 Lincoln Premieres.)

MacRae went on to execute the restyling for the 1958 Packard line, but credit for the vision of what a '58 Packard should be, especially the Hawk, really ought to go to Curtis-Wright's Roy Hurley. That man clearly didn't have a clue about the car styling or what the Packard-buying public wanted (as witnessed by the dismal sales figures), let alone the auto biz. However, I do give credit to MacRae for accomplishing a lot of change with a very limited budget.

Personally, I would have much rather seen the '57s that Detroit stylists intended (as seen in pix of the full-size clays that I contributed to the Photo Archive, here) come to fruition.

Posted on: 2009/9/7 19:49
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