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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Home away from home
 
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ok. But from post #43 above by BH:
"440912 - replacement crank (of unspecified type), for 5522-42-47 models (5540 chassis), per SSB No. 350 of December 1959 440989 - replacement forged crank, for 5560-80 and all 56th Series models, per SSB No. 350 of December 1959" No indication that the 440912 crank was also forged??? If there is no documentation for a forged 440912 then it must be assumed to be cast (remeber DOCumeNtaion needed) ???? Therefore some doubt that PMCC tooling was actualy lost for the cranks????
Posted on: 2012/2/4 23:04
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Home away from home
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Packard V8 states:Quote:
No indication that the 440912 crank was also forged??? If there is no documentation for a forged 440912 then it must be assumed to be cast (remeber DOCumeNtaion needed) ???? Therefore some doubt that PMCC tooling was actualy lost for the cranks???? Sherlock Holmes said in A Scandal in BohemiaQuote: "it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data" We have a written statement from a Studebaker-Packard scholar stating the Packard V8 crankshaft casting patterns were destroyed when the Packard engine line was shut down. We do not as yet have internal S-P documents corroborating this. All early crankshafts were cast steel. That 440989 is forged and superseded 440913 and 476009 is documented. Since there is no information on the production method of crankshaft 440912, it would be impossible to state with any certainty of which method it was produced. FWIW, detail on foundry operations from another S-P scholar: Quote: Wyman-Gordon began in the early 1900's as Ingalls-Shepard Forging. I worked there from 1975 to 1982, in Harvey, Illinois about 15 miles south of Chicago. Five other men from my family worked there also. My first year I worked in heat treating, a horrible job. After 14 months, a position opened up in the truck shop as a lift truck mechanic. I took the test and passed, so I transferred. Best job i ever had. W/G was so large it had five different unions, with five different contracts, so someone was always on strike. W/G built a big plant 100 miles south in Danville Illinois and busted the unions. This plant failed and a few years later they had a huge explosion at their Rome, TX plant. I believe the company subsequently went out of business. The huge steam hammers, which were so powerful they would bounce you off the floor when they struck, were dismantled and sent to South Smerica. Harvey, IL operations ceased around 1986. jack vines
Posted on: 2012/2/5 12:54
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Just popping in
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Jack Vines says he knows of six forged Packard cranks. FYI, I have a seventh, which I found in a 56 Golden Hawk engine I bought a few years back (along with the O/D trans and a few other parts that were all that remained of a GH that had been stored in a chicken coupe and had rusted away).
Engine had been bored 1/8" to a 374 (numbers show it was the original 56J block that was factory installed in the car) and had a forged crank. It was otherwise stock. It was a happy surprise to find the forged crank, but it will be put to good use, as the original crank in my 56 GH has about ten times as much end play as it should have. My forged crank has been machined for a pilot bushing. Just wondering if some or all of the forged cranks were so machined, or if the end user would have had to have that done; I have two spare 374 engines and the neither of their cranks are drilled for a pilot bushing.
Posted on: 2012/2/24 23:22
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Forum Ambassador
 
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All my experience says that Packard did not use a pilot bushing. They used a pilot bearing. I converted a 51 from Ultra to std and remembered to take the pilot bearing which fit right in the end of my crankshaft. The point is the crank in the ultramatic car was the same as in the std equipped car. I think Packard followed procedure and if you had Packard part number 421731, it would have fit in the end of the crank. This same part number is used for most 23rd series thru 1956. It is a bearing, a ball bearing if memory serves. Jack Vines can enlighten us if there was any difference.
Perhaps Studebaker did something different for their std trans and had to machine the crank as their pilot shaft was not the dimension that Packard used as a standard.
Posted on: 2012/2/25 1:21
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Just popping in
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Ah - you are right. I didn't look closely enough last night; the forged crank does indeed have a pilot bearing. And the cast cranks look like they will take the same bearing.
By the way, the only reason I know about Packard forged cranks is from lurking on this forum. That's also how I found my two spare 374's. So I appreciate all the info and the knowledge that you all have and have shared with us. Attach file:  (73.91 KB)
Posted on: 2012/2/25 8:21
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Home away from home
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FWIW, both the '56 Golden Hawk and the '55-'56 Clipper/Packards with standard transmission used the same ball-bearing pilot and all Packard V8 crankshafts are drilled for it. The Borg-Warner T85 transmission in the Studebaker was a short tailshaft version and Packard used a long tailshaft housing.
FWIW, that ball bearing is NLA and expensive when found. I've seen more than one with a fabricated bronze bushing installed. jack vines
Posted on: 2012/2/25 11:44
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Forum Ambassador
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Thanks Jack - I knew you would either verify or correct.
Posted on: 2012/2/25 13:52
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Home away from home
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Were PRODUCTION built golden hawk 56J's with Packard V8 all have forged cranks????
Let me state it a different way: Either some, none or all 56j's had forged cranks. So is that some did, or none did or all did have forged cranks from the factory????
Posted on: 2012/2/25 16:32
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: 352 Crankshaft
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Were PRODUCTION built golden hawk 56J's with Packard V8 all have forged cranks???? To date, I've never seen a production engine which could be verified as having been built with a forged crankshaft. Until we get something different in print from the factory, the 1959 date for introduction of the forged crank as a service part is still the one I believe. jack vines
Posted on: 2012/2/26 12:11
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