Moodydavid16

Setting (or at least checking) both the metering rods and the anti-percolation valves is a necessary step when re-building a WDO that you otherwise have little experience with. If the carburetor had been running well and then abruptly has an issue, that’s another issue and the two aforementioned checks are less important, because just before the issue all was well and the adjustments were likely close to correct.

An engine that starts and then stalls is not likely either the metering rod position or the anti-percolation valve position. I would go after the choke and high idle adjustments. Being a WDO I’ll assume you have the throttle position starter switch . . . therefore the engine fires with a rather large throttle position, and once fired you likely reduce the throttle position as close to idle rapidly. My ’48 would have the same symptom until I installed an auxiliary starter switch, and tinkered with the choke and high idle adjustments.

Back to the rod and valve adjustments. I found a T109-113 for sale on EBay. I looked today but did not find one in the first page or two when I searched for ‘Carter tools’. Update: I see HPH found one . . . jump on it! It’s not clear to me where the 2.28 inch dimension is measured . . . I think it is from the ‘flat’ to a location on the ‘pointy end’ that has the same diameter as the main jet taper.

What I found was a late lifting metering rod adjustment results in a bog during the transition to the main metering circuit (fuel starvation by reduced fuel flow area). Late closing AP valves also has the potential of producing a bog in the same transition point (fuel starvation by reduced suction at the discharge nozzle), but if the AP valves are significantly late closing the engine will not transition to the main circuit at all, but you might be able to rapidly accelerate to the main circuit. I have not explored early rod lifting (likely a rich transition), or early AP valve closing, which may cause a hot restart difficulty, but I’ve been running my ’48 with a set of dummy AP valves for many years, so early closing AP valve may be undetectable form the driver’s seat. I’ve also have had some success shimming the vacumeter spring with a #4 machine screw AN washer.

Stalling just after start, in my experience, is a choke and high idle throttle position issue . . . assuming all else is proper, such as timing, tune-up, etc. You should find in the Carter documentation guidance on bench adjusting the high idle position.

Update:

On Carter tool T109-113 the 2.280 inch dimension appears to be the distance from the step in the tool to approximately half way down the tapered tip.

If I had to guess I would predict the print calls out a tip angle of 45 degrees, and begins approximately 2.220 inch from the step. The full width of the tip is approximately 0.132 inch, and appears to be fabricated from 16 gauge sheet stock.


dp

Thanks for the tip Ross. I’ve got a set on order that should be here soon. My plan is to put them in the bottom drawer of the tool box in hopes I’ll never need them. I say that somewhat in jest because I use U-joints and swivel sockets quite often and I’ll see if a wobble extension is the equivalent when the need arises.

dp

I concur, removing the upper bolt on a Delco large solenoid starter is quite a chore. It’s a rotate 1/12 turn, flip the open-end wrench, rinse and repeat process, all while lying of the fender . . . quite lengthy and uncomfortable. IIRC I removed the left front wheel/tire to ‘kneel’ the chassis so I could have one foot on the ground. Clearly the starter was installed prior to the chassis/body marriage. The Army cadre had a saying about monkeys and footballs that must have been inspired by this job. Years ago when I swapped intake manifold gaskets on a Vortec 350 I made a ‘top-side creeper’ out of ¾ inch plywood. I suspect if I ever had to remove that Packard starter again, I would use the TS creeper and at least make myself comfortable.

Kevin, while I think you’ve found the root cause in the brushes, I would also investigate the solenoid contacts.

dp

56PKRDGUY

Here’s a write-up for the post-war through ’55 cars. I believe the ’56 design uses shims, versus a crush sleeve, to set the pre-load on the pinion bearings, so the obsession with returning the pinion nut to the exact pre-disassembly position could be relaxed. Getting the pinion in the exact position would still be quite acceptable in the ’56 design.


https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18059&forum=2&post_id=179582#forumpost179582

Post #7

dp

I've used heat for an electric heat gun (industrial hair drier) to soften the old grease enough to push in new.

DP

Yes rear wheels off the ground would help determine whether the transmission is free. Service and parking brakes should be off. If you have a helper to depress the clutch, you might try rolling the wheels. Depending on progress/results you may consider removing the drive shaft. Have you read the caution about OD stuck engaged and trying to back-up?

Blake, with the top cover removed can you slide the 2nd/3rd synchro and the 1st/Reverse selector back and forth? If so the ‘lock-up’ is not likely in the transmission (you will likely need to depress the clutch and roll the gears a bit). Moving on to the cover, there are a sequence of detent and interlock balls that inhibit you from selecting ‘two gears at once’. If that mechanism is not working correctly you won’t be able to move to its neutral position thus inhibiting the shift. With one of the shifting forks in the neutral position the other fork should be able to ‘select’, both fore and aft, but be inhibited if the first fork is not in the neutral position. Finally the adjustment of the linkage between the steering column and transmission is critical in synchronizing the neutral position on the column and the neutral position of the cover. Your problem could be nothing more than a linkage adjustment, or a worn component in the linkage.

I have another hobby car that when I first bought it would balk coming out of first (the ‘stuck in gear’ syndrome). Either on the second or third try the inhibitor function would finally work OK and I could up-shift to second. When I use the word ‘try’ that means stopping the car, pulling the shifter back into first, accelerate the car to the shifting speed, and ‘try’ again. There was never a problem with the 2nd to 3rd shift. Driving the car, and changing the transmission lube a few times ‘cured’ whatever was wrong. That car is a ‘top loader’ so there is no additional linkage to worry about. The car suffered from lack of use before I bought it, so I just wrote it off to corrosion or varnish in the transmission shifting rails/inhibitor mechanism.

dp

Blake


See Joe Wareham’s blog "Joe's '49 Club Sedan"

Many entries on wiring, complete with humor on how many ‘zip ties’ are needed during mock-up.

dp

https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19398

Talemon

The short answer is Carter 2BBL models WDO & WGD, and Carter 4BBL model WCFB. As for fuel injection: Yes we have at least one forum member that has converted to a Holley Sniper 2BBL. If you go with FI expect that a conversion to 12V NG will help, and you will need to fabricate a manifold to carburetor adaptor. Otherwise, the feedback was quite positive. I seem to remember an iterative tuning cycle to ‘fatten-up’ the start schedule.

dp

Stewart, I’ve added a few thoughts if you elect to change to an alternator. The 12- / 12+ question was asked to help guide discussion later in the process.

The ‘problem statement’ of swapping from a generator to an alternator has been done perhaps hundreds of thousands of times . . . well maybe not that many, but enough so there are few unknowns at this point.

First let’s start at which brand of alternator to choose:
All of the ‘big three’ products had unique to the brand alternators, but I would suggest the Delco units found on GM products. From a financial standpoint the 10SI or 12SI units are the smart choice (opinion). The difference between the two models is the self-cooling ability. The early 10SI units were cooling limited to about 60A output (likely twice the output of your generator). The 12SI added additional inlet area on the rear face of the unit, and the cooling fan that had a vane shroud. The 12SI output could be at least twice of the older design, or four times the output of your generator. The extra capacity was needed when continuous high current features were added. One of the first of these features was rear window heat. The alternator for cars so equipped had a higher output alternator than cars without the rear window heat. I don’t know of any ‘downside’ of having reserve current capacity. In the OEM configurations the capacity of the charging system is matched to the load that is expected to be continuous (with little positive margin). If all of the continuous loads are powered there is little left to charge the battery or operate the transient loads (horns). So if the headlights and heater blower loads are off, technically you’re operating with reserve capacity, therefore having a bit more won’t hurt (opinion). I think a 60 A 10SI alternator will be more than enough.

The mounting of the 10SI and 12SI are identical, and there are many brackets that would be direct replacement for your generator mount. Mounting will not likely be a problem. Pulleys for most of the standard belt widths are available (and are easily changed), and there is a selection of pulley diameter available, so matching the alternator minimum speed should not be a problem.

The next subject is whether you expect to find a replacement alternator if you’re away from home on some type of a tour. Since your car is 12-volt negative ground you have a pretty good chance of finding a replacement . . . 12-volt positive ground not so much. One more consideration, that is, whether the alternator is electrically similar to the OEM configuration, or a different wiring scheme is used. Finally, we’ve arrived at the ‘one-wire’ / ‘three-wire’ conversation.
Both the 10SI and 12SI alternators are internally regulated . . . somewhat a standalone unit. These internal regulators come in several flavors that are referred to one-wire or three-wire. The OEM used the ‘three-wire’ scheme, but it wasn’t called that at the time. The first wire connection, normally a threaded post pointing straight aft, is the output of the alternator (BAT on your current regulator). Both 1 & 3 wire configurations will have the output pole. The next two connections are ¼ inch male blade connections and only apply to the 3-wire scheme. One of the connections has two functions; first it is the connection for an ‘idiot light’, while the second function is to provide external excitation to improve low speed alternator performance. The external excitation current is actually the current lighting the bulb, however there are GM designs that had a resistor in parallel with the bulb. I believe the design intent is to current limit the excitation to approximately 1 amp. The final ¼ inch male connection needs a bit of explanation. In the automotive industry there is sufficient motivation to match the design to meet the need with minimum margin. It the case of the charging system there was a desire to minimize the wire gauge size when possible, and the output of the alternator was subject to these pressures. GM (Delco-Remy being a division of same) made a lot of cars, with many different circuit lengths between the battery and alternator, and the scheme to regulate the alternators output to the battery voltage was invented. With the addition of one small circuit between the battery and the alternator the battery could be held at 13.4 volts (nominal) even with some variable voltage drop between the two. The corrector plug for the two-blade connection are available.

If you value being able to maintain your car far from home, then wiring your car the same way GM did would be a plus. If you would like to monitor the system the minimum would be an ‘idiot light’, followed by either a voltmeter, or ammeter. For my 6+ cars I bought a few digital voltmeters on EBay and wired them to a plug appropriate for the cigar lighter socket. One of the cars has a light, while the other has an ammeter . . . both have the EBay voltmeters (easily removed when the critics arrive).

Finally, if maintaining the correct under hood look is a consideration there are PowerMaster alternators that look almost like a generator. The 12-volt negative ground unit (they don’t make a 12+) is available with and without a connection for the ‘idiot light’. I have a 6+ PowerMaster on my ’48 (ammeter). I drilled the aft case to install a phony field winding connection, and added an Autolite generator tag completed the ‘look’. The only missing items are the ‘oil caps’, otherwise it’s an adequate facsimile. I left the voltage regulator on the firewall. It doesn’t do anything now, but as I think about it, that regulator didn’t do anything the last time in was trying to control the generator.
I agree with the comments about the adequacy of the OEM generator equipped charging system until your continuous load exceeds 30A. If the OEM system is complete junk adding an alternator is an easy way to return the car to service while the availability and $$ of restoring the OEM system is being investigated/accomplished. My ’54 has the OEM system that is working just fine. When I purchased the ’48 I would say the OEM system was on its last legs a few years before I bought the car.

You mentioned a Painless wiring harness. Is the car functioning now, or are you in the process of swapping the harness? If you’re installing the new harness, I would investigate what you would need if on day two you installed an alternator. As a minimum I think you’ll need a 8 – 10 gauge wire from the alternator output to the BAT connection on the regulator, and if it is a 3-wire alternator the ‘idiot light’ wire (I believe it’s tan) on the GEN (perhaps ARM) connection removed from the regulator and extended to the alternator. The other blade on the 3 wire is attached to either the battery or the large connection on the starter solenoid. The armature and field wires connected to the generator will be insulated and folded-back on the harness. I think all of that wire harness modification and additions could be added when needed. Since the alternators are internally regulated, I don’t believe the wire bonding the generator and regulator together is required but bonding the alternator housing to a ‘good ground’ would be a ‘best practice’ subject.

dp