Another drive....another time....

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Some additional info on early EP lubricants:

The primary additive that was added to the early gear oils to give them the EP (extreme pressure) rating was sulfur. Because of the tooth geometry of the new hypoid gears used in the differentials the existing gear oils would not provide protection against the higher pressure gear tooth load that was present in the hypoid differential.

At the time sulfur or sulfur based compounds were used to give the lubricant a EP rating. One problem with sulfur or sulfur based compounds is when moisture is added the compounds tend to form sulfuric acid.

The acid that could be formed using a sulfur based oil would attack the lighted metals, brass, bronze, and aluminum.

If you've taken apart an old transmission or differential that used sulfur based oils you'll notice two things, a very distinct smell and a thick dark gooey sludge that covers everything. This smell and sludge is the remnants of the sulfur in the oil.

As stated in previous posts a modern GL-5 or GL-5 gear oil that meets MIL-L-2105 contains corrosion and EP additives that makes them suitable for hypoid and spiral bevel gears.

I've had good luck with a multigrade 85W-140W in a '32, 4 spd. syncro transmission, spiral bevel differential, and worm and sector steering box.

One trick that will help, machine the transmission and differential plug to accept a neodymium magnet that is nickle plated. The strong magnet will capture any fine particles that wear from the gears over time.

The same trick works equally well on crankcase plugs. If you use a neodymium magnet just make sure it's nickle plated to prevent corrosion.

A groove machined into the bore of either of the plugs will accept a snap ring to keep the magnet in place.

Regards,

Dave

A few side notes:

Normally cruising @60 mph would not be recommended in a 70+ year old car with babbitt main & rods, a 4.69 ratio differential, a 110 hp engine, and a body / frame combination that pushes 4500+ lbs. The original standard 4.69 ratio winds the engine close to 2900 rpm @60 mph.

A few modifications have been done to allow cruising at higher speeds. I replaced the original 4.69 ring & pinion with a 4.07 which drops the engine rpm from approx. 2900 to 2500, which is about 50 mph if the stock ratio was still installed.

The engine has been balanced to 0.1 grams to reduce as much as possible additional loading on the bearings due to reciprocating parts not being balanced.

I added needle bearing into all the rocker rollers, replacing the original brass sleeve bearings. Because the cam is geared at 1/2 the crankshaft speed any reduction in hp required to turn the cam is doubled at the crankshaft.

The mains and rods have been re-poured with nickle babbitt. Nickel Babbitt Alloy is the result of over sixty years constant effort to produce the best bearing alloy, regardless of cost. Today it stands supreme in the field of high-grade bearing metals. It is made only of carefully selected virgin materials and each element is subjected to scientific treatment during the alloying process.

Nickel Babbitt lasts longer under severe service, because,

* It holds the oil film
* It pours freely and fills all liner crevices
* It's anti-frictional
* It cannot cut the shaft
* It resists high temperatures
* It has high thermal conductivity

Regards,

Dave

Big Ed,

I've attached some detailed information on the Perrot brake system that should help.

On patent 1613768 look at item #14, you will see a small clip that retains the spring and dust cover. Remove this clip and you can disassemble the system further.

Regards,

Dave

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Just a couple shots out the front window...

Enjoy....

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The type of fan belt shown is called a Brammer link belt.

One of the benefits of this belt is that it can be installed without taking apart or moving the pulleys.

There is a company in the UK that offers these new.

Some background on the Brammer type link belt, off the Brammer WEB site:

Made from a series of individual links, link belts offer a unique alternative to traditional V-belts and wedge belts. The belts are a simple concept but deliver outstanding results solving many problems that can occur with V-belts & wedge belts.

Highly resistant to water steam, oil and most industrial chemicals. They are also highly resistant to abrasive substances such as grit, sand, gravel and other building materials. They operate at extreme temperatures (-40 to 100oC) with minimum effect on performance. Easily made to fit any length.
? Long lasting belt - up to 20 times longer in some applications
? Fit in minutes, not hours - belts can be joined around the pulleys without dismantling the drive
? Minimal maintenance - fit and forget
? Reduced vibration/ noise - link design can reduce transmitted vibration and belt noise by up to 50%

Big Ed,

There are two slightly different designs for the Perrot shaft assembly. One design has a dust cover on the top of the front backing plate and a exposed ball stud and socket that is connected to the frame.

The second design has the same dust cover on the front backing plate but instead of a ball stud on the frame there is a shaft and bushing covered by a dust cover, that mounts to the frame.

The first design was used on later series cars, the second on earlier series.

Both designs use dust covers that are spring loaded. A dust cover is comprised of two covers, a outer and inner. The inner is fixed to the front backing plate and the outer is free to slide forwards and backwards across the inner, as the front wheel turns.

For the earlier design the inner is fixed to the frame and the outer slides up and down as the frame moves up and down on the springs.

Regards,

Dave

Big Ed,

First answer - the Perrot shaft assembly sits approx. level when the car is at a "normal" ride height. I checked a eighth and ninth series and they were about the same.

Because you have the body off I would hold off on all brake adjustments until you have the body back on.

Second question - 1/4" out at the end where the brake cable attaches is not that bad, especially when you consider the distance you're from the center of the shaft, where the play is in the joint. You have three areas where the play adds up, long shaft to pin, pin to short shaft, and short shaft to the cam that operates the primary and auxiliary shoe.

The dust cover (closest to the front backing plate) over the Perrot universal joint has a "C" clip type collar that fits into a groove in the shaft. Pull the spring back from this collar and you should be able to remove the "C" type clip. When you do this you will release the spring that holds the dust cover against the mating other half of the ball.

I've dealt primarily with eighth and ninth series cars so all the info I've given is based on those models. I believe the Perrot type system was used on Packard's from '25 on, your seventh series may have some differences.

Good luck,

Dave

Owen_Dyneto & Big Ed,

I'm glad I could be of some help.

The "usual" areas where I've seen wear is the pin and hole in the long shaft that the brake lever is connected to and the hole in the short shaft that slides into the shaft that is connected to the cam that operates the primary and auxiliary shoes.

The short shaft and pin is located inside the spring loaded dust cover on the top of each front wheel backing plate. If the pin is worn a replacement can be made out of a good quality tool steel such as AISI/SAE 01 or more commonly known as A-1 tool steel. This is readily available in small diameters. One source is mcmaster.com or most machine shop or tool supply house.

If the hole in the long or short shaft is worn you can ream the hole slightly oversize. Once again mcmaster carries hand reamers. If you get the hand reamer do not turn it counterclockwise as you are cutting, you may break the flutes off the reamer. Don't try and use a drill to open the holes up, a reamer will give you a more uniform hole with a better surface finish.

Best method - hold the shaft in a machine vise and use a gage pin or indicator to make sure the hole in the shaft is in line with the spindle of the milling machine or drill press you are using. If you know someone with a tool or machine shop they can help you out.

Personally I'd wait until the body is on the frame before adjusting the brakes. I don't know what (car) body style you have, open or closed, but either way you're looking at 500 - 800 pounds that is going to be added to the frame. Not having this weight on the frame is going to change the geometry angles of the brake system and the brake cable lengths.

Regards,

Dave

Big Ed,

A few comments:

Check the Perrot units for wear. This unit is a small universal joint. If the pin and coupling inside has excessive wear the two ends of the joint inside the dome shell on the top of the front wheel backing plates will not be on the same axis or center-line.

The more wear you have in this unit the greater the two shaft ends inside will be out of alignment. The more these two shaft get out of alignment the rotation of the end operating the brakes will increase as the wheel is turned, assuming the end the brake cable is attached to is fixed.

You can easily check the play by disconnecting the brake cable and pulling the front drum. Hold the cam that operates the brakes securely and try and rotate the end the brake cable is attached to back and forth.

The working parts of the Perrot unit consists of three shafts and a pin. One shaft goes to he brake cable, one goes to the cam that operates the primary and auxiliary shoe, and the third shaft is the rotating coupling or universal joint. The three shafts are connected by a pin.

These parts were made to fit together closely. I've taken original units apart from cars with 70K miles on them and there has been about .005-.010 play in the whole unit. As long as there has been grease in the unit they seem to stand up well (once again, we can thank the Packard Engineering Department).

Because these Perrot units are not CV (constant velocity) universal joints even in perfect condition there will be some rotation of the joint as the wheel is turned.

I've adjusted the brakes of cars using the Perrot system, and if I had they were adjusted a little tight, the brakes would lock just as you described, even with the Perrot units in good condition.

You may want to try backing of the brake cable adjustment nut to give you a little more play in the front brake system.

Your experiment of disconnecting the cable and looking for rotation of the shaft as the wheel was turned is a good clue. One suggestion, apply some force on the brake shaft to take up any play that may be in the Perrot unit and turn the wheel side to side and see if you can see the brake shaft move. Take up the play in both directions when you turn the front wheel side to side.

If there is play in the Perrot unit you may not see it with the brake cable removed, because as you rotate the wheel side to side with out any pre-load in the system the movement of the Perrot unit could get lost in the play that is in the three shafts and pin (if any).

These brakes can be a "bear" to adjust properly, but when they are, they work great. A thorough, major brake adjustment can take 4-6 hours. I've found the best method is to remove all the brake cables, loosen up the two anchor pin nuts slightly, put a good load on the operating lever and then sock down the anchor pins. Make sure the eccentric adjustment is backed off before you do this. This method centers the shoes in the drum and then allows you to adjust the eccentric to bring the primary and secondary show up to the drum.

I've made up a mechanical foot using some 1/2" threaded rod, a nut, and a few 2 x 4's. When you have all 4 wheels centered they you have to adjust the brake cables at each wheel to get them to operate uniformly. Having a tool you can put against the front seat and adjust to press the brake pedal down and hold it there in one spot will make the 4-wheel adjustment much easier. Just try asking your wife / girlfriend / significant other to keep their foot on the brake with 80 pounds force for a hour, it just doesn't work.

One key point to getting good operating brakes in the position of the brake lever on the brake shaft. With the brakes applied fully you always want to be 5 to 10 degrees before full vertical position to a vertical position. This way you have the greatest amount of leverage applied to the brake shaft.

Good luck,

Dave