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352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2007/5/23 13:46
From Near Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 121
Attached are pix of the 56J's motor (352), torn down recently for top end work. As you can see the ring groove at top of the cylinder is nearly nonexistent, and the .030" oversize stamp is easily readable on top of the piston. The lifter valley is nice and clean also.
I switched this motor over to Mobil 1, 15W50, only a few thousand miles after break-in on a total rebuild of the short block, about 15 years ago. IIRC, I used GM, Moly rings.

Attach file:



jpg  352 3.jpg (236.62 KB)
228_529d3516c18f6.jpg 1023X764 px

jpg  352 4.jpg (224.64 KB)
228_529d352e253c9.jpg 1023X764 px

Posted on: 12/2 17:35:02
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2009/7/15 9:56
From Billings, MT, Yellowstone
Posts: 1247
that's all I run in my modern cars. Nice to see it works so well with the Packard. I've heard that the synthetic oil tends to leak more. Any sign of that with your V8?

Posted on: 12/2 18:24:51
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2007/5/23 13:46
From Near Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 121
I have read synthetic oil causes excess leakage in classics too, but besides this 56J, I have ran Mobil 1 in two other 56Js, and in several Studebaker V8s (259/289) for a total of several hundred thousand miles, and have not experienced that.

Even at 90,000+ miles, this 352 still gets about 4,000 miles per quart. In earlier days it got around 5,000, so hasn't dropped much. Per my experience, that is also about the same mileage healthy 352s get with dino oil.

About five years and 15,000 miles ago with this 352, I replaced the OEM rope seal at the rear main, while simultaneously installing an Olds oil pump. The rope seal was beginning to drip a little, but not real bad. I replaced it with a modern GM seal, I mentioned a few years ago on this NG, that is still doing its job superbly. My point is, the synthetic oil is no problem for rope seals (long as not the repro ropes).

I simply cannot say enough good about Mobil 1 when used in 352s and 259/289s, and consider the above pix a testament to the superior lubrication qualities of the stuff.

Posted on: 12/2 18:38:33
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2006/5/30 19:28
From USA
Posts: 6121
What kind of valve seals????

Posted on: 12/2 20:31:26
_________________
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245&forum=4&post_id=77931#forumpost77931

--------------------------------------------
56 Executive sedan (Nice driver).
56 Executive sedan (Parts/R&D car).
48 2262 complete chassis/drive train. (no body). starts and runs as good as a sewing machine
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2007/5/23 13:46
From Near Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 121
I run the generic, black umbrella type valve stem seals, same as BBC if I recall correctly. I also always use the late 56 style baffles, to keep dripping oil from getting past the intake valve seals and fouling the plugs (been there-done that).

Posted on: 12/2 20:39:54
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2008/1/8 20:15
From Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2606
I have full synthetic mobil 1 10w30 in my v8, I used it for the initial startup and break in at around 2000-2500 rpm. it had an acceptable level of zinc in it still as well, so I did not see the need for the zddp additive. I also used engine assembly lube with moly.

not a single noise or problem when breaking in. I will need to change it shortly though for new mobil 1 synthetic.

it is a bit leaky at the back of the oil pan...could be it needs tightening though. or maybe a few more heat cycles etc etc. no other leaks from oil though.

I use this oil in all my cars, including my supercharged z3.

Posted on: 12/2 22:11:16
_________________
1955 Packard Clipper Custom Constellation
Citrine/Onyx #5567-2948 VP 57
link to my project blog: Henry's 55 Constellation Project Blog
In memory of Henry Lee Greene Jr.
His cars he owned:
1956 Patrician named Dolly (found, owned by Todd Stennis)
1937 Packard 138CD on stretched 120 Chassis (FOUND, owned by Lawrence Dolan)
1947 Clipper (found, owned by Mike Rigsby)
1955 Sardonyx/White Clipper Custom 4 door (not found, any information is appreciated.)
And many others that i don't remember or don't know enough about to list.

RIP Temple Greene

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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2006/5/29 17:21
From Pahrump, NV
Posts: 1594
OK, let me give you an alternate view of Mobil 1.

In 1977 I owned H-O Racing, which specialized in Pontiacs. The company flagship car was a 1974 Trans SD-455, the hottest engined muscle car extant. In 1977 that car set a national NHRA record for both speed and E.T. In other words, the fastest, quickest car in that class in the USA.

One day after that, looking for even more performance, I went to Irwindale Dragway in SoCal for the explicit purpose of testing whether Mobil 1 was "better" than Valvoline, which I was using at the time. My company, H-O Racing, rented the the Irwindale track for the entire day. First was a run with the normal Valvoline (20-50 IIRC) "dead dinosaur" oil. My race car ran a number close to it's record setting number. Then, I brought the race car back and drained the Valvoline and put in a like aount of Mobil 1. The race car slowed down by 0.1 ET and 1 MPH. Then I drained the Mobil 1 and put the Valvoline back in. The ET picked back up where it was initially.

Take it for what you will about back-to-back-to-back tests. To this day, I will NOT put synthetic oil in any of my cars.

And, none of my Packards or other cars have had a bearing problem either with "dead dinosaur" oil.

Maybe if your engine never sees over 2500 RPM, then the OIL DOES NOT MATTER. That's what I take away from the above posts.

ON EDIT: I remember a couple of other details about the above test.

1) I made 3 runs with Mobil1 and it was consistently 10HP slower than the Valvoline.

2) Later, on a routine tear down inspection of the engine, one of the rod bearings was bad. I can't say for certain that it was the Mobil1 that caused it, but I never had that problem before or after (the SD-455 had superior rods in it from the factory).

ANOTHER EDIT:

3) My SD-455 drag car ran in NHRA Super Stock which allowed such things as roller cam, 14x32 slicks, 5.13:1 rear gears, a full roll cage, etc. It was a serious race car, not a stocker, although the engine was otherwise basically stock.

4) IMO, the clean look of the interior of the 352 posted above is due more to religious oil changes rather than anything particularly "good" about Mobil1.

5) It is also my opinion that proper machining and careful assembly contributed much more to the 352's longevity and good performance than a particular brand of oil did.

6) The Olds oil pump conversion couldn't have hurt either.

Craig

Posted on: 12/2 23:08:38
_________________
Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. Groucho Marx

Website: 1956PackardPanther.com
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
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Joined:
2006/5/30 19:28
From USA
Posts: 6121
I'll have to agree with Craig. The minimal wear os most likely due to other factors. The worse possible case for engine wear is cold starts followed by drivong before engine has warmed up any. Not a habit that many SI car owners practice. Maybe with grocery getters but not with SI.

Posted on: 12/3 5:58:36
_________________
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245&forum=4&post_id=77931#forumpost77931

--------------------------------------------
56 Executive sedan (Nice driver).
56 Executive sedan (Parts/R&D car).
48 2262 complete chassis/drive train. (no body). starts and runs as good as a sewing machine
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/10/28 7:49
Posts: 1564
The drag strip results are consistent with what can be found on Junktube. Motors using Mobil 1 produce 5% lower peak horsepower than other brands - including synthetics.

The Consumer Reports New York City taxicab study could not find a measurable difference in wear using Mobil 1 or conventional oil. What they did find was that - in a computer controlled engine - oil changes need not be done more often than 6,000 miles. This is consistent with owners manuals - including the extended intervals beginning in the 1960's. So changing more often than necessary is a waste of money. The study does validate the benefits of detergent oils.

I have some Mobil 1 around here and I am going to do a little test. I will coat a screwdriver with it and let it sit. I will report on how the film holds up after one week.

For the Packards this is the most important characteristic - how well does Mobil 1 protect after extended cold soaking.

Cheers

Posted on: 12/3 10:41:32
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Re: 352 Wear at 90,000+ Miles, With Mobil 1
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/23 13:46
From Near Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 121
I realize oil discussions can be as spirited as religion or politics, and not trying to go there in this thread. I am not a professional, so can only share experience. But I do have quite a bit of experience, having driven Studebakers well over 500,000 miles since 1985, with over 200,000 of those miles on Studes equipped with Packard 352s.

As for the above motor, I have indeed changed the oil & filter "religiously"---every 10,000 miles. Actual mileage is closer to 11,000 due to odometer error created by running taller gears than the factory made pinions for (3.31 with OD). I hate changing oil, so that was one reason for going to synthetic in the first place.

As for driving habits, I am probably the worst abuser. I drive Studebakers year round, and have done so in the California Desert and now here in Kentucky. I seldom allow the motor to warm more than around 30 seconds before driving away. That is one reason I installed EFI in two other Studebaker Hawks (Stude 289 motors); EFI allows for near instant drive away, without having to feather the gas pedal the first couple of minutes.

As for oil, it seems most, if not all modern oils do what they are supposed to do, and well. So I submit, whichever particular oil a person prefers is just that---personal preference. Unlikely to go wrong with any of them long as we follow the manufacturer's instructions and stay from "no-name", bottom shelf stuff.

Posted on: 12/3 10:46:35
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