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More troubleshooting
Home away from home
Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Still working through a troubleshooting process on the miss at idle and at elevated RPM and documenting what I am doing so I can recall later in time if this happens again:

Tested all the spark plug wires for continuity; nothing interesting there.

Listening to the exhaust pipes, the right (passenger) side is noticeably more 'forceful' than the driver side. I know the exhaust manifold riser valve can restrict this to some degree, but I have the spring removed so it is mostly open. (note, i manually close it when starting the car until it is warmed up). Have some muffler holes that were patched with tape so maybe there is some leakage on the driver's side

The miss is audible from the right exhaust pipe along with a low frequency "whoom" sound at the sound of the miss (and reduction of rpm).

I think this is telling me that my problem is not a generic fuel/carb problem or primary side ignition problem.

Pulled the even cylinder plugs and 2,6,8 look normal. #4 looks too clean to be right; the insulator core is very clean. Started engine with #4 plug removed and touching block. Seems like a proper spark visually so I would assume it is firing in the cylinder.

I also have lowish vacuum (oscillates between ~16"-~17")so maybe there is a vacuum leak in #4 air path that is causing a very lean condition.


More to come, just wanted to write down what i did recently so I didnt forget.

Next steps: pull right valve cover to see if anything weird going on with #4 intake valve. Also maybe use a spark tester to see if any difference between the plugs.

Attach file:



jpg  plug 4.jpg (354.56 KB)
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jpg  plugs 2 and 4.jpg (462.97 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/8/29 9:32
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Bob
1955 Packard Patrician
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Re: More troubleshooting
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Pulled the passenger side valve cover. Looks like normal rocker arm action. Did notice that some of the pushrods are really rotating quickly, some not so quick, and #6 exhaust is not rotating at all. You can see a video at my Youtube channel at:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXxvWDoVWUSusn7JVgi1Fkw


I pulled off the rocker arm assembly and checked this pushrod. Ends looked nice and round/smooth and rolled it on flat surface and no evidence of being bent. Rocker arm cup itself looks good and the same as the others.

Put a dab of assembly lube on tips of rocker arms, reinstalled with no change. From idle to ~3000rpm that pushrod does not rotate. Trying to convince myself not to pull the intake manifold and lifter valley cover to see if the lifter itself is not rotating. But seems like the only logical next step.

Any thoughts of what to do or look for next would be appreciated. I feel that I have a vacuum leak but can not find it.

thx

Posted on: 2019/8/30 17:45
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Re: More troubleshooting
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
decided to open it up. Pulled out the lifter for #6-Exhaust. Hard to tell from photo but it shows a wear pattern of not rotating, although there is a ring around the circumference as well. I know at one point it was rotating from earlier post #25 in:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... id=205415#forumpost205415

Felt around in bore and seems very smooth. Might try to brush it with plastic bore brush and be careful with anything falling into engine.

Attach file:



jpg  6# lifter.jpg (514.18 KB)
120663_5d6c225e77d35.jpg 2048X1536 px

Posted on: 2019/9/1 12:56
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Steering Control valve rebuild
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
I bought a kit from Max to rebuild the Bendix control valve assembly. Seemed to go okay, but could never stop it from leaking where the control valve assembly meets the main section. So used RockAuto's rebuild service with Lares. Rockauto received in on a Thursday and shipped it back to me the following Tuesday! You can see they replaced the original metal sleeve seal around the ball stud with one that has a rubber gasket around it. I'll install it soon to see if it works better, but it looks nice. Cost about $225 with tax and shipping.

Attach file:



jpg  rebuilt steering control valve.jpg (616.47 KB)
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jpg  rebuilt steering control valve_2.jpg (535.93 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/11/22 17:37
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oil pan gasket comparison
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
I dropped my oil pan to try to stop leaks I have at front and at back. (plus checking on journal bearing wear, more on that in a later post). Looks like it leaks (front and back) where the cork end strips meet with the flat side gaskets. Tried some black RTV during assembly at those locations, but get persistent drip.

Thought I would need to replace the gasket so ordered 2 new ones. For my future reference (and maybe it helps someone else), here is a comparison of three oil pan gaskets.

I had 1 from when I ordered a complete engine gasket kit from Max a couple of years ago. It is really thin and seemed too thin so I just ordered another one. You can see the part number of the new, thicker one ends in "s".

I also ordered a Best 24040 gasket from another vendor. It is the compressed, fiber paper variety as compared to the cork type from Max. Here is a picture of the 3 stacked up for comparison. The newest Max one is the thickest (on top), old Max one in the middle, and Best on the bottom (gray)

When I installed the existing gasket, I used Permatex High tack gasket sealant on the block side and nothing on the pan side. The pan came off easily and the gaskets (2 sides, and front and back thick cork) stayed in place on the block.
There is no evidence of any oil leaking on the side gaskets, just where the side gasket & tabs meet the end pieces (and remnants of black RTV). I'm thinking of just leaving the gaskets in place, cleaning out the old RTV, and adding a few more dabs at the corners (and re-checking the pan bolt hole areas for any deformation).

That's about what I did last time and it didn't work great so I don't know why I think I will get a different outcome this time. But it seems like that should work maybe I let the RTV dry too long before assembly. I've looked through many posts on this site and there is variation as to what to do with those side tabs etc.

Hoping I'll get a better result this time since the cork is already in place. I'm planning on adding RTV dabs at the 4 corners, getting the pan bolts just barely snug, letting RTV set for a tad, then torquing to spec.

we will see...

Attach file:



jpg  max oil pan gasket compare.jpg (602.66 KB)
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jpg  oil pan gasket compare.jpg (342.14 KB)
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jpg  oil pan gasket as installed.jpg (779.96 KB)
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jpg  rear oil pan gasket installed.jpg (805.23 KB)
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Posted on: 12/7 15:33:41
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Bearing check
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Since i had the steering mostly apart to send control valve to Rockauto/Lares, and was pulling the oil pan to try to stop the front/back leaks, I figured I would pull a few bearing caps to see what kind of wear I'm getting.

Recall that when I first put this engine together last Aug '18, I left a paper towel in the engine and it plugged up a lot of the oil pump inlet screen. Oil starvation had to have happened so at that time, I pulled each cap took some pictures,then blew air through etc to ensure no remnants.

As an example, here is a then/now picture of rod bearing cap #2. A few more scratches then before plus and signs of what I would consider contamination. Also some end wear/wipe at the edge of the bearing, which really surprised me.
The scratches across the width don't make sense so wondering if I some how did that while installing/removing the cap.

Also a picture of Main cap #3.

I also sent an oil sample to Blackstone (attached). One of their findings was contamination. To date, I have run all the time with the oil bath filter removed. Having the carb fully accessible has made tuning idle mixture, rpm, and choke so much easier. But now thinking that is where the dust/dirt is coming from that is causing this bearing wear.
Any other thoughts from this sample? It is the first one so will need to see what the trend will be.

Part of me thinks that I should take this opportunity to replace the rod and main bearings with the crank in place and start anew. Doesn't seem that hard from videos (even the manual talks about using a cotter pin to remove/install new main bearing) and at this point doubt the crank journals have had much wear to worry about.
Other part of me thinks I can do that at any time and should put it all together over the holidays so I can drive this thing and get some real miles on it to see how it performs.

Attach file:



jpg  rod bearing 2 Aug 18.jpg (252.51 KB)
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jpg  rod bearing 2_a Dec 19.jpg (274.61 KB)
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jpg  rod bearing 2 end wipe.jpg (289.76 KB)
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jpg  3 main bearing end wipe.jpg (348.02 KB)
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pdf 55 PATRICIAN-191117 Oil analysis_R_Redacted.pdf Size: 12.57 KB; Hits: 3

Posted on: 12/17 19:59:00
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1955 Packard Patrician
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Re: Bearing check
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 143
Oil pan re-installed with black RTV at each 'corner'. Started it up and front seal seems to be holding. Some drips from the back down the side of the flywheel cover but will let it play out for a bit. Oddly, had an oil leak from the fuel pump mounting interface. Next step is to replace the modern (~7psi) fuel pump and added regulator with an original carter fuel pump that I sourced from Mike Dulinksi and just had rebuilt by Terrill.

Car started up just fine but miss at idle and higher rpms is apparent again. ALso still fighting with thermal spring for heat riser valve. New one from Max didnt solve it. When it heats up it relaxes a little but then the valve starts bouncing and never fully opens.

Noticed a lot of 'vapor' from the crankcase vent tube. Not sure why there would be so much. Also found that if I remove the oil filler cap the vapor goes away, then returns when I put the cap back on. seems odd.

Here is a video of the vapor

https://youtu.be/yRB7Nfc7xHo

Posted on: 1/10 7:05:35
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Bob
1955 Packard Patrician
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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Joined:
2013/8/2 15:19
From MKE, WI
Posts: 678
RE your choke spring, ALL the parts books are wrong, those springs can push or pull but not both. Let me search my old treads here for the "magic" part.
On your "vapor" issue, that should decrease as the engine warms and I have seen rings that can take 2-4 K to seat

Posted on: 1/10 8:34:12
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