Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Yes, that's what I meant about having to rewire. Otherwise the power is still going through the switch.

You guys are right about the relays only being there to reverse the polarity, not take the current load off the switches. In any case, here's a section with clearer circuit diagrams from my Panther website update.

http://1956packardpanther.com/Panther/windows2.html

Craig

Quote:

The circuit I am using with the Bosch type relays is a bit different than Craigs. On the Bosch type circuit the switch only works the relay coil and relay contacts take all the load leaving the switch with very little current requirement. It will work 55 or 56 with the only change being either the switch is connected to operate the opposite relays or the motor is connected opposite. Haven't decided which method to implement.

When off, both relays normally closed contacts connect motor leads to ground and motor does nothing.

When Up is selected, UP relay energizes and connects terminal B of motor to 12v. DN relay stays relaxed so voltage goes from battery thru motor B, out A and back to ground thru DN relay normally closed contact. Motor rotates in one direction.

When Dn is selected, DN relay energizes and connects terminal A of motor to 12v. UP relay stays relaxed this time so path from B is thru UP relay normally closed contact to ground. Polarity at A and B has been switched so motor reverses.

If by chance two switches operate both relays at once the motor sees 12v on both leads so again nothing happens. This is different than the stock Packard where two switches could energize both field coils at once. In that circumstance motor does not move but current draw thru both switches is considerable.

As was mentioned earlier, PM motors are polarity sensitive so if the battery is accidentally reversed all will still function but the motor will be running opposite. Pushing the switch to lower window will try to raise it and vice versa. No electrical damage will occur but at least there will be an indication that polarity has changed.

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If you're going to run battery power directly to each door, then of course the relays will take all the load but I thought you are doing a more plug-and-play solution that would leave the car's existing wiring alone.

Battery power is already at each door so I am leaving all alone but with one addition. The switch leads will disconnect from motor and plug into the relays so no change there. A tap connector similar to this will go on the center power wire of switch to provide voltage to the relay contacts. The tap will be the type that the added wire plugs into the tap instead of being a solid connection. That way all will just unplug if stock wiring is wanted. The tap connector will stay on the wire but will be unused.

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It is? Oh, you're right! I was thinking only of the master switch, forgetting all about the switch in each door. Still, I would prefer to leave the original wiring alone as the switches should be able to easily handle the load, especially with a new motor that should draw far less than the original.

I am a firm believer of taking as much of the load out of those switches as possible. Even if the new motor is less it is still a fair amount of current -- particularly if the motor is in stall at the top or bottom.

One side of the switch contact is a healthy piece of metal and for whatever reason the switch designer chose to make the other side a tiny button. That button slides against the fixed contact and arcs when it makes the connection and again as it breaks. Most of the switches fail at that small contact point as the tiny bits of metal burn away.

As Craig found when he had to repair his switch there were either different vendors or maybe different year switches intermixed. The differences are enough that parts are not necessarily interchangeable between switches. With several others having had failed switches over the last year or two that is another of those items that will be getting in short supply. Might as well preserve it if there is a chance.

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Ok, took the power window motor to "Ricks Restorations" in Las Vegas. Rick told me that he doesn't work on any car stuff. Matter of fact, he is a really nice guy!
So, a Car collector friend of mine is taking it to San Diego, as he knows of a classic car starter and generator rebuilding shop. Will keep you posted.

Do you have any photos of your regulator or anything from a parts manual showing the layout? As you asked in your first post, I have no idea if Hudson used the same regulators as Packard or had their own and just used the same motor. If AMC did buy and use the same basic components from an outside vendor it might make doing a retrofit motor more feasible.

I still think a modern motor swap can be done and playing with a Dorman motor, it looks easier and simpler to make an adapter than that on the first motor photos I posted . I've ordered a couple of ready made items to see if something can be made using off the shelf parts. Should know if that will work by the end of week.

Incidentally, in spite of the Packard (Delco) pinion being 6 tooth the Ford 9 tooth pinion the other poster mentioned does mesh perfectly with the Packard regulator gear. Problem is the the pinion diameter is approx 1/8" too large to fit the regulator space and slide in the end support bearing without modifying the regulator. Not going to do that so the modern motor stock pinion can't be used. Modern motors also have the pinion close to the motor so pinion is too far away from the regulator portion to mesh without some kind of shaft extension or adapter.

Will be interested to know if someone will rewind your motor and how price comparable it would be to one of the NOS or used that are available.

h,

the pinion, is that OD, large?, whata bout turning it down in a lathe