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Based on the definition of coachbuilder - "a craftsman who makes the bodies of motor vehicles", For Postwar classifications I would consider any non-factory built body that is contracted to another entity to build would be considered a coachbuilt car. Included in this definition would be ANY Henney built model as described in:http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/h/henney/henney.htm

I would consider this megacool 52 limo to be coachbuilt. I would consider the 53-54 Caribbeans and 51-54 Derhams and 1951 127" wheelbase Dietrichs to be simply modified cars and not coachbuilt cars. If the 55-56 Caribbeans were shipped as convertibles to Ionia (as I think they were) then I would simply call them modified also. I would consider the Packard Monte Carlo, The Balboa, The Predictor, and the Panther-Daytonas to be coachbuilt also. The Request was simply a modified car due to no "integral body shape/structure" changes were made.

Of course this is all just my own opinion but a line needs to be drawn between simply a "modfied" car and a true "coachbuilt" car and this is how I would draw it. Thus to be coachbuilt the actually body of a car needs to be built or rebuilt to a significantly different configuration as produced from the factory production line.


PS I like that Jaguar E-Type Series 3 bonnet too!

now using this description further below, virtually any Packard ever made would be a coachbuilt car. But I'm not buying that. I'm using a definition virtually identical to what Rolls-Royce used that help differentiate between a Coachbuilt late 40's/1950's Silver Wraith and a Production body Silver Dawn or Silver Cloud:


coachbuilt construction
Definition: "noun"-- a vehicle layout incorporating a separate chassis frame which serves as a carrier of all drive train and suspension parts, the vehicle body itself not forming an integral structural part of the vehicle.

Hi Fred

The whole question of what constitutes a coach built custom body and what doesn't merit the title is, as the King of Siam would say "a puzzlement". Perhaps what Hugo Pfau wrote in his Cars & Parts magazine columns forty years ago will help, paraphrasing.


Full-Custom Body: a one-off, unique design executed for just one customer to his order, no other copies built. Any of the one-off unique bodies built on the Duesenberg J or other Classic chassis would meet this perfectly. If a second body to the design was built, unless it was an exact copy in every way, it would be considered a full custom in its own right, however similar it might be. Variations of well-known, full-custom designs followed on the original even in this rarified strata. This is a somewhat odd occurrence since ordering a custom body just for oneself ideally produces a completely unique result.

Series-Custom Body: coach built bodies of one design built in batches of 10, 25, 50 or 100 or more to be catalogued offerings by the chassis/carmaker. Most of the Dietrich, Rollston, LeBaron bodied Packards etc. fall into this category. Lincoln, under Edsel Ford, was a consistent practitioner of this method. Sometimes referred to as Catalogued Customs. Production numbers could boarder on the low end of what might be considered simply production quantities. Although professional or livery cars by Henney are built with the same methods, because they're purpose-built for the commercial not private trade, they're viewed differently.

Falling opaquely within this semi-custom category were those bodies which were produced by recognized custom coachbuilders for which public credit was not taken. LeBaron produced the Marmon Sixteen bodies designed by Walter Teague, delivered "in the white" (primer paint) to Marmon for upholstery trim and paint finishing. The reason given the Marmon Sixteen wasn't advertised with LeBaron bodies was that company didn't complete all the operations in their own plant to their own high standards.

Semi-Custom Body: now the gray area begins. Typically these were based on a standard production body but received a specific modification to create another recognized body style. When Derham began modifying the front compartment of sedans into open-front town cars, they were moving into this arena. For surviving custom coachbuilders by the late '30's-early '40's with the advent of the all-steel body, this was their way to adapt to the changing industry methods and standards and still offer a unique body to those seeking one. The Packard Darrin falls into this category.

Low-production catalogued body styles: Cited was the 1939 Chrysler Hayes-bodies Victoria Coupes. Recent production convertibles by ASC, the Cadillac Allante Those might fit most of the criteria of the semi-custom at least broadly interpreted. Such cars as the Lincoln Continental and Chrysler Town & Country although built in-house, could be perceived as series custom although that might be stretching the meaning very tight.

Any of this diatribe help?

Steve

Thanks Steve for enlightenment, it's now as clear as my 55 black Patrician in my garage during a blackout.

The 56-57 Continental bodies were not built in a Ford plant and did not use Ford employees. They were built, painted and trimmed by Mitchell=Bentley in their Ionia manufacturing plant, along with many wood bodied and later all steel station wagons. I don't know where they were mated with a chassis.

So if a 59 Buick body was assembled, painted and trimmed at Ionia and then shipped to Flint to be mated with a chassis, what is it?? Maybe it's a Buick station wagon, we can all agree on that.

Have you heard anything about fixing the crack engine block?
John

No, eagerly awaiting positive news??? If the welder cannot do wew ill try Steve Babinsky at Automotive Restorations, he was tied up until after Pebble Beach.

Update: all front suspension/brake components are being painted today, some black as orig, the rest cast-blast to simulate bare steel.Assembly (positive work) will commence shortly

I have a question that will help me with my 1801, if some brake parts are black and some are cast blast, Which would be which? Are the wheel & master cylinders cast? Natural finish on fittings and brake lines? The same for the mounting hardware natural or black? I do not want to open a can of worms, however this might just help in my research.

Thanks in advance for any help
Fred D

To the best of my knowledge:

All these items are semi-gloss black:
Drums
Backing plates

Natural/cast blast:
All brake cylinders
brake shoe web
Emerg link
Metal brake lines
Brake hose clips at ends

Suspension parts:
Natural/cast blast

lower control arms
Wheel supports
Spindles
Upper control arms (51-56)


Semi gloss black
Knee action shocks

Did I miss anything on your 1801?

Fred

Thank you

Fred D

Good news, welding of block successful. Block, valves. guides will go to machine shop Tuesday. Have started attaching front/rear suspension to frame. Looking good.