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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2116
I have a pile of non-Packard WCFB cores and I would be happy to check them out if you’ve not found a solution before my next Oregon shop visit. Likely you’ll be back on the road by then but if not . . .

Posted on: 2019/1/1 10:38
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 231
I harvested my Carter WCFB repair manual for primary throttle shaft part numbers ( see attached PDF file). The bad news is that the primary shaft part numbers vary quite a bit. The Packard numbers are unique . . . I suspect many of the shafts are identical and only differ in the linkage attachment lever that is swaged onto the shaft. At least the shaft in question is a ‘left side’ configuration, that is I8’s use right hand pull, while V8’s use left hand pull . . . many more of the latter.
dp

Attach file:


pdf CarterWCFBThrottleShaft.pdf Size: 59.72 KB; Hits: 32

Posted on: 2019/1/3 10:15
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 157
DavidPackard & PackardDon:
thank you for the time in writing your posts. I have looked for a replacement shaft via the Carter part number (as you have in the provided table) 3-961S with no luck via the internet searches. But I am also hopeful that a lot of the primary shafts (7" long, 3/8" diam, 1-3/8" flats) are the same and I can just re-swage the linkage attachments, as you also state.

Dp, regarding my comments: Yes, I did cut off the ends of the existing screws with a Dremel cutting wheel. Upon reassembly I used new brass 4-40 screws and not convinced I could peen the new screws without bending the shaft, I used blue or red Loctite. I was having trouble with the carb as I couldn't get the engine to idle low enough and there was noticeable suction on the secondary side of air horn. Fearing that the throttle valves weren't properly installed I removed the carb. 2 of the new brass screws came out, but I snapped the heads of 2 of them; verifying that Loctite works well and heat is needed to properly remove these screws.

My Carb is likely a 2232S based on air horn (6-889) and throttle body 1-1231.

64avanti: Regarding your comment that 'parts WCFBs' are well under $100, where? I struggle to find anything but very expensive WCFBs in my internet search. I fear my attempts to drill out that last hole were counter-productive.


thanks again for helping me think through all of this and hopefully get a replacement shaft. PackardDon, I appreciate the offer to see what you have have available next time you are in your shop.
-Bob

Posted on: 2019/1/3 12:25
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Bob
1955 Packard Patrician
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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2012/4/10 19:35
From San Diego, CA USA
Posts: 1589
Using a center drill would be better to get a hole started.

Harbor freight has them ..they come in different sizes in a package...they won't walk..

I like the red grommets.

The torque arm..mine came out too..had out of body experience..

Was waiting for load arm to let go.

But there is a stop..i used a jack and Got it back in.

I have not taken that arm off. To replace the forward bushings..but seeing that load arm stays up..someday ..i'll do it..

Posted on: 2019/1/3 14:49
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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Joined:
2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 231
Bob;
If the 4-40 screws were Loctite’d I would think heat should be applied (per the advice on the ‘LocTite’ website) before they are removed . . . even if they are now broken. I bet a good sized soldering iron would do the trick.

Assuming you can find a shaft, you could drill and tap the throttle lever end and hold the Packard lever with a cup and screw . . . much like the other end of the shaft. Care must be taken while harvesting the donor shaft . . . as not to grind too much of the peened area.

I was trying to find which carburetors use the same lower flange, but my manual does not call-out the lower flange as a separate part. There is a listing for the flange assembly that includes the shafts and throttle valves. The assembly, of course includes the unique primary shaft & lever part, so that search was a dead-end. Perhaps Carter is trying to send a message that they would prefer the lower flange is managed as an assembly.

The manual associates the 2232 S with a ’55 Clipper Super or Deluxe (5540), with head casting 440689 (likely jetted for a particular compression ratio), which should have 1 1/16 and 15/16 throttle valves. Are your throttle valves struck with a part number such as 2-92? Please confirm. My plan is to update my file for those carbs with 1 1/16 primary throttle valves. At least those carbs should have shafts with the same size ‘flats’ on the shaft. Please note the application is the 5540 chassis, not your Patrician 5580 chassis. I’m talking out of school on this subject in that I’ve never owned a 12 volt Packard.

I’ll update the throttle shaft attachment, likely in a day or two. For what it’s worth, all of the diagrams and photos I’ve looked at tend to indicate that the flats at the end of the shaft appear to be aligned with the throttle plate flats . . . meaning your Packard lever will likely be in the same ‘o’clock’ position with a band X shaft installed.

dp

Posted on: 2019/1/3 17:52
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 157
The WCFB must not have been the original (vs spec'd Rochester 4G), but neither was the engine. It is a '55 352 (casting # 440275-A) with 440689 heads but stamped 5587 (for a 400) vs 5582 (Patrician), although identical in every way.

As far as carb specs:
Air Horn: 6-889
Main Body: 0-986
Throttle body/base: 1-1231
Primary throttle valves 2-92
Secondary throttle valves 2-161
I infer that it is a WCFB 2232S and bought a carb rebuild kit for that.

I am hoping I can find a primary shaft somewhere that can be made to work (7" long, 3/8" diam).

thanks for your help

Posted on: 2019/1/4 20:03
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Bob
1955 Packard Patrician
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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Joined:
2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 231
Today was a cold and rainy day in Arizona, so what better to do than update the Carter primary throttle shaft file? This version of the data file identifies which units would have S-92 throttle plates and includes a Buick unit that I missed the first time. I would think that PackardDon should be on the look-out for a carburetor that has S-92 throttle plates.

dp

Attach file:


pdf CarterWCFBThrottleShaft002.pdf Size: 59.04 KB; Hits: 34

Posted on: 2019/1/6 14:04
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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Joined:
2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2116
I will definitely check when back at my shop but it’s about 550 miles away so will be a while! Not sure what these carbs are from but I was given a box of them back in the ‘70s by an old auto parts store near here. They had an attic with lots of new vintage parts too and I bought what I could but in my 20s then with little money I got only a few things.

Posted on: 2019/1/6 15:26
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
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Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 157
Have not been able to find the exact throttle shaft (3-961) anywhere or any old WCFBs that are known to have this shaft. I did buy this one on ebay, a 3-1111 as David Packards list shows it will fit the same throttle plates. It is really close but too long at the secondary throttle linkage end.. Thinking it wouldn't be too hard to get someone to cut it down to length, cut the flats, and tap a hole. Also need to swap linkages on the other end. Hoping there are carb shops out there that can do this easily. Might call Carb Junkies and a few more to see if they can do this kind of work with precision. Any suggestions as to who would be good at this?

Would also be good to have someone check and mill throttle body to ensure it is flat to manifold. I have a vacuum leak somewhere that is eluding me and this seems like a possibility.

Curious is this the right gasket for the throttle body to intake? Seems odd with the space under the gasket between banks and hard to get it to seal if both sides aren't perfectly flat.

Next up, some pics of the replacement of the rear support arm bushings..

Attach file:



jpg  new old throttle shaft.jpg (290.65 KB)
120663_5c5673a2ce11e.jpg 2048X1152 px

jpg  new old throttle shaft end.jpg (313.58 KB)
120663_5c5673ae4ee8e.jpg 2048X1152 px

jpg  intak to throttle body gasket.jpg (328.58 KB)
120663_5c5676ecd9a86.jpg 2048X1152 px

Posted on: 2019/2/2 21:08
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Bob
1955 Packard Patrician
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Re: Bob's '55 Patrician Blog
Home away from home
Joined:
2016/3/1 6:56
From Houston, TX
Posts: 157
Relative to the WCFB throttle shafts, I sent the new, longer, one to my nephew that has a machine shop to see if he could shorten it to match the old one. We will see.

Made progress on the rear bushings. I removed the driver rear support arm completely so I could cut out the broken Watts linkage attachment stud. A little bit of effort with my Dremel and many cutting wheels did the trick. The new ones bolted on. Hoping the fact that the Watts linkage attach point will now be about 3/4" further aft than the welded stud won't be a problem.
Cleaned it all up, then reinstalled with the new poly bushings. Getting the front 3 bolts of the support arm in was a PITA since there are two plates where it attaches to the frame and it took a lot of effort to get them to stay aligned. Dwight suggests using a thin metal plate on top of the upper bushings to keep them from being distorted so I used a metal electrical box cover and cut it down. Had to fight with getting the load arm to reseat in the support arm saddle bracket, but enough ups and downs of the axle and frame seemed to get them to line up.
Repeated the process for the passenger side. Here are pics of the new stud (required a tad bit of grinding to get the shock absorber attach bracket to fit.

Load arm gap is there as it was when I used floor jack to raise the frame with the Watts linkages and shocks removed. But , damn, I can't get these two back together. The hanging bracket is much too inboard to mate with load arm. Tried raising frame, lowering axle, vice versa and all combinations. But can't seem to make it work.

I could use some advice. Tried looking at other posts in these forums, but nothing seemed to help out.

thanks for reading

Attach file:



jpg  support arm old stud and new bolted stud.jpg (693.06 KB)
120663_5c5a4913c6faa.jpg 2048X1152 px

jpg  electrical cover plate as shim for suipport arm bushings.jpg (424.41 KB)
120663_5c5a498c872d8.jpg 2048X1152 px

jpg  pass support arm bushings installed.jpg (330.76 KB)
120663_5c5a4a119405a.jpg 2048X1152 px

jpg  pass stud for Watts linkage to Support arm, grind.jpg (523.71 KB)
120663_5c5a4a1ba2972.jpg 2048X1152 px

jpg  load arm gap.jpg (257.43 KB)
120663_5c5a4ac55ebfd.jpg 2048X1152 px

Posted on: 2019/2/5 18:48
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1955 Packard Patrician
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