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Here are a few more. I pick up the beastie tomorrow and bring it home.

http://community.webtv.net/lordladymopak/THECLIPPERROD

it looks great, if its that good before its buffed out man, thats gonna be one great paint job you got there

Al: Very nice paint job. I know that you have own a few MoPar vehicles besides that Packard's you own. How big of a garage do have to store all of them in.


John F. Shireman

It seems that no matter how much we try, Murphy is always going to nail us all some how, way, shape, or form. After 4 months of starting up a running to allow the body shop to run the car in and out without having to push it. The car picks the day it is to come home for the starter to go haywire. Then while it is in for that the mechanic matches the old fuel pump which is leaking against the new one which is the after market one that folks out here are saying is the correct one and lo and behold there are some differences. First it is quite a bit smaller, enough so that the mechanic has doubts that it will feed 2 thirsty 4 bbls. Secondly, the mounting holes are smaller and would have to be drilled. out in order for the mounting bolts to go thru. So my question is this. This newer after market product, was it only for the 352 and should it not be the same as the 374? Other than that, it looks great. I will hopefully add more photos to the website as soon as I can.

What fuel pump were you using Al?

Al -

Gee, be glad it wasn't something worse than a starter and fuel pump. Bad timing for you, I know, but those are quite common repairs, you know.

All 1955-56 Packard and Clippers used the SAME pump - a Carter M-2198-S - regardless of displacement and number of barrels or carbs. I believe the 56J Golden Hawk would have used the same pump as well.

Although I've heard tell of some of these cars sporting AC branded pumps, I've never seen any factory documentation that showing that as factory install. Rather, I suspect that, as the OE Carter pump became scarcer, someone simply found an AC pump (P/N 5594299) that would bolt up. However, one member (Ross) showed us the results of a failed (substitute) pump that appeared to use a die-cut laminated pump arm rather than the correctly formed arm that the OE Carter used. Personally, I wouldn't use anything but the OE Carter on my Packard V8s.

However, IIRC, Hudson applications used a dual-action AC pump (P/N 5594293).

The single-action Carter pump is an easy rebuild. I've done 4-5 of 'em, on different cars and over a 30 year span, with no trouble. Problem is that the supply of NOS and NORS kits was exhausted decades ago. Yet, I'm not sure if you'd want to use that tired old rubber nowadays, anyway - especially with modern fuel blends.

Then and Now Automotive (aka - Antique Auto Parts Cellar) makes new kits or can reline old obsolete diaphragms:

http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm

If you're in a pinch for time, know that I've twice used new rebuild kits made for Carter pumps as used on later Stude V8s, including the Avanti. The parts in that kit appears to be identical to those serviced in the M-2198-S, EXCEPT for the valve cages (so I reused the old ones).

If you don't have a rebuildable core, call around to the usual sources - they're out there.

Brian:

Your right it could have been much worse. You would think I would get used to these little speed bumps, what with all of the cars I have done. It was just the timing of it all and the number of glitches I have had this week. In any event it seems that the demise of the fuel pump may have been greatly exaggerated. The mechanic put the old one back in as it seems that the hose clamp to the input side of the fuel pump was loose. So we are going to go with that at first. The starter however is another matter. That will have to be rebuilt or so says the rebuild shop. Cei La Vie........ As to the fuel pump rebuild kit, I looked those up on E-bay and from what I am looking at, it seems that there are more parts in the kit than are necessary. Is this because the kit can be used to rebuild different models of fuel pumps so they cover all of the bases. Hopefully all will settle down and I can get the car back home next week. Oh BTW the pump that came out of the engine that is in the car is an AC. The pump that came out of the engine in the garage is a Carter. What was going on in 56? Were they using whatever happened to be on the line at the time or what????

Al K

In the absence of any documentation showing that AC fuel pumps were factory install, I'd say it was more likely the AC was an aftermarket replacement or something that someone found would work. While I've seen a few single-action AC pumps installed on the V8s, I've seen far more Carters.

Keep in mind that its been over 50 years since the last Packard V8 rolled off the line, and as the dealer network evaporated for Packard and then Studebaker, owners turned to the independent shops. Fuel pump service was about as common as that for a starter, generator, or water pump, and you'll often find application listings in aftermarket catalogs for vehicles where the supplier was NOT the OE source. Beyond that, I've found a lot of cars cobbled up with whatever an ill-informed owner or mechanic could lay their own hands on, just to get by.

I haven't looked closely at one of these kits in several years, but it could be that there are some alternate parts for variations in design. I do seem to recall some leftover parts from the one or two rebuild kits that I picked up from Studebaker vendors, but it had everything I needed to do the job right.

The only kit I'm seeing on eBay right now for a Carter pump is in a Ford box (eBay item #290354892889) - fits 1967-1970 390 and 428 engines. It looks awfully similar, but the diaphragms that came out of the pumps used on Packard V8s weren't notched/tabbed between the bolt holes like that. Neither were the ones in the OE kits or those from Stude vendors that I've used. I don't know if I'd bet my money on that Ford kit when kits that are known to work are available from the usual vendors at similar prices.

Al writes: "Were they using whatever happened to be on the line at the time or what???? "

I tend to agree with Brians first paragraph above.

However, one can never discount the possibility that, under certain short term circumstances the factory used what ever they could get.

BOTTOM LINE: That assembly line DOES NOT STOP. That is rule NUMBER ONE of the auto industry. SO perhaps we'll never really know. As a side note, the only thing that i know of that ever threatened to shut down the line was if payroll got behind in computer systems.

O.K.

Just because I'm paranoid does not necessarily mean the Packard and Antique Car Gods are NOT out to get me. I am going to try and post a picture of what happened and see if you guys have ever had this happen to you. I went and got the rebuilt starter. The mechanic installed it. He turned the car over and it started but the fuel pump was still spewing fuel so he shut it down. He tried to crank it over again and sheared about a 1 1/2 in section of gear right off of the the bendix gear.

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