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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#21
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

HH56 wrote:

Instructions on mounting the switch are in the book I suggested you download. There should be two screws or at least two holes in the bottom of the defroster channel near the original L defroster duct flange. That duct flange is cut flush and eliminated with AC so there should be some kind of flat plate covering the remaining hole. The switch mounting screws could be part of that plate or helping secure the plate. The switch mounting slots slide over the screws and assy is tightened in place. Switch has a slight offset with the shaft angled toward the dash hole location. A gentle curve of the flex cable will provide the drive connection to the knob.


GOTCHA!!! okay I missed that. thank you for that. I read over that thing and I guess I just glanced over that.

Posted on: 2020/5/4 13:13
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#22
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


thankfully the switch and its entirety were there.

I did find the A/C wiring diagram thankfully.

Where did that bracket for the A/C switch mount too? Mine was just hanging out on the backside of the dash. I didnt find any mention of how that switch mounts behind the dash.

Posted on: 2020/5/4 12:32
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#23
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


This past weekend I got a little time waiting for mud to dry in the garage that I got some work done on the dash disassembly. I have the interior trim out here to be sanded and painted, but figured I should get the dash and column torn down so I can do that all at once.

Didnt get to far with the tear down due to having to mark every single wire on where it will go and cleaning every connection to prevent issues when I go to reassemble everything. I had to steal some bezels out of the other dashboards due to the ones I have being damaged or the plating just plain sucked. I had to rob a headlight switch out of one of the other dashes due to the Patricians being damaged in some areas.

As you can see the radio is not the packard one. I have the wonderbar radio in the other dashes I would like to use, but I do not have the wire routing or the wiring diagram on how the wonderbar radio works with the dash speaker, rear speaker and the speaker switch on the dash. The radio will get updated with modern electronics to give me AM/FM and an AUX input, but I would like to see if I could incorporate that speaker switch with this conversion. I posted in the 55-56 V8 section for a wiring diagram, but if anyone here has one please share!

I also dont have the a/c wiring diagram. the 55-56 a/c install listed on this site only has a small one detailing the switch wiring, but not the relay(?) that is mounted on the under side of the dash near the torsion level shut off switch.

both those areas are not detailed in the service manual that I can tell.

initial inspection of the harness shows the wires to be in decent shape with the exception of the yellow ignition wire coming off of the ignition switch... that wire has the insulation burned off and continues to look that way into the wrapped section of the harness. So that is a fire waiting to happen. once the harness is off the dashboard I will have to cut open the harness, trace that wire to the fuse panel instrument panel feed and replace that wire. Probably with a little heavier gauge.

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Posted on: 2020/5/4 8:51
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Wiring Diagrams - A/C & Radio
#24
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Hello,

I am hoping someone will be able to direct me to wiring diagrams for a couple areas of these vehicles:

The car is a 56 Patrician and originally is an A/C car but was missing a couple related pieces to the A/C system when I brought it into the garage. Now I have not been able to find a wiring diagram that shows how this is to be wired up. The 55-56 A/C install posted on this site has a small diagram showing where the wires on the switch go, but the car has some type of relay that I was not able to find how that works with everything else on the system. So does anyone have a wiring diagram for this system?

I have no idea what radio this car came with originally, but it had a 50's-60's style Mopar radio installed with a different speaker. The car still retains its speaker knob, power antenna switch and I was wondering if anyone has the wiring diagram on how the "wonder bar" radio would be wired with both speakers (this car does have the rear seat speaker) and speaker switch? I have an original radio in another dash I would use. I would get that radio updated with modern internal guts to give me FM/AM and an AUX input, but I wanted to see how everything originally work to hopefully incorporate that speaker switch.

I was not able to find the areas in the service manuals that show the wiring for these areas.

thank you

Posted on: 2020/5/4 8:29
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#25
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

Ross wrote:
How 'bout having Mr. Ficken rebuild your vacuum motor for about $120 and then just installing a nice new 55 Thunderbird dual action fuel/vacuum pump for another $90 and done. You will pay more than that for a rebuilt standard fuel pump.

The system will work terrific: the wipers park properly at the molding, you have infinitely variable speed, and dual sweep for the really heavy rains. Plus, if you are enthusiastic you can make the coordinator cycle the wipers when you push the button for the washers. My '56 did over 60 beats a minute when I turned them all the way up. What's not to like?

They will need rebuilding again in 2080 though.

Just noticed the other day that the lovely 56 Continental came equipped with vac. wipers.


so its a 55 Thunderbird fuel pump that is used for that!! I saw someone on here that used that set up and I thought was pretty dang cool! Is it a direct bolt on fuel pump? and why would I need the packard vacuum pump (which I believe you are referring to the vacuum pump on the oil pump?) rebuilt when this combo fuel pump you suggested already have a vacuum pump? or are you referring to yet another vacuum pump on these cars?

dumb question, I know it is a ford pump, but is the support for that fuel pump similar or better for that then pump on these packard engines (which I believe is a carter pump)?

Posted on: 2020/4/29 6:08
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#26
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


That is all good information on the wiper conversion. Right now the car has a salvage certificate, which in PA means that it would need to go through an enhanced inspection to make sure all systems work. There is something in there about everything being original, but I think I can sneak in an electric wiper conversion. But anyhow, only once it passes the enhanced inspection can it receive a rebuilt title. From there I can get an antique title so I can get antique plates and not have to get it inspected every year. I dont trust some "technician" tearing into something like this on a yearly schedule.

Back to the wiper conversion, I did read some people used the chevy motor but everyone couldnt remember the specifics. I did like the the idea of the Newport Engineering conversion but saw you have to use their switch. I would be interested in seeing how you designed a module to take the inputs from the Packard Switch and got it to communicate with the electricals of the wiper motor, HH56. According to their site you have three switch options: 2 speed switch, 2 speed switch with the washer function, and an intermittent switch with a washer. So those different functions have to be done in the switch and not the motor itself. I was thinking of adapting the Packard bezel, sweep and pull knob to their switch, but if there is a way to just use the Packard switch with their motor I would be interested in trying that.

Id also need to find the washer jar and pump as well, because the car didnt have that when I got it into the garage. It may be in the Packard Shed.

Posted on: 2020/4/28 6:17
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#27
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
The very, very first thing you'll want to do it you plan on instrument panel swaps and switch and control swaps is to get yourself the special tool for doing so. I made my own using a precision drill press but I understand someone has been selling these tools online in recent years. In most cases, you cannot remove a switch or bezel from the instrument panel without this tool-at least not without takin g a chance on wrecking the bezel or switch/control. To remove or install the bezels and thus switches/controls you will need the equivalent of an allen fitting with a hole through it. The stem of the control/switch slides up into the fitting hole while the hex edges of the allen fitting can then reach the bezel attachment and unscrew or tighten in place. So. I strongly recommend if you are going to go this far, get the tool first!

As for the A/C fittings at the firewall. there were tools to install/remove these, but once installed they were never really intended to be removed. All of which is why they are so extremely difficult to disassemble. AND the very reason why I strongly recommended using two flange wrenches. Most people use one wrench and king-kong it into submission for removal-only to find later that they have destroyed the delicate bottom of the evaporator core. Which leads to a whole bigger bowl of worms.

As for the instrument panel mesh trim... why not simply have it re-anodized? Or remove it, clean it and spray with any of the wonderful coating sprays on the market now?

As you may guess, I'm not a big fan of swapping engines and other parts and customizing a Packard into a hybrid morph. Of course, then the next guy gets it and has no idea how to un-molest it or how to my the hybrid morphs work.

My dad was terrified of having an orphan car where you couldn't just saunter down to the dealer parts department and place an order. That was why he wouldn't buy a Packard in 1955-56. However, I see things just the opposite-especially today. To me, it is always a whole lot easier to simply put an old car back the way it was when new and be done with it. If the power steering goes bad-fix it. If the Ultramatic goes bad-fix it. It may be necessary to alter or substitute some A/C parts, for instance. But you can never go wrong with keeping a car original. Some of this stuff is like going after a mosquito with a sledge hammer. But this is just me.



that is a wealth of information, thank you!! I will have to try and track down that tool or make one myself. Some switches were already removed from the Patrician instrument panel but they are all there. I do have the bezels from the switches removed so I should be able to make my own tool.

I can understand not wanting to modify a vehicle where someone wouldnt be able to figure out what I did. But I plan on utilizing this thread as a way to document what ever changes I do decide to do. So if someone (including me) wants to change something or repair something they have a good starting point. I am not against modify vehicles if it will allow the vehicle to perform better using factory or current part offerings.

I could try to get it anodized if it is that bad, but I have two additional dash boards to get parts from. But finding another coating I could use could work as well.

Ill keep HH56's stain idea in the back of my mind if the color is truly that faded.

Posted on: 2020/4/27 14:33
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#28
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

b.wilson wrote:
Hi Carfreak

Watching your progress with interest. I have a 56 Clipper Deluxe with shabby paintwork which needs tidying up. Couple of thoughts:

1 If you get your hands on a good 352, and go with that, it might be a good solution. That's obviously what my Clipper has but it was fitted by a previous owner with an Edelbrock 4-barrel carby and twin exhaust system (which I guess you already have). Mine is auto and gets along very nicely with that setup. I don't know whether the compression was raised - doubt it. Important to check that the original oil pump has been converted in either case. Then you lose the vacuum wipers, but not too hard to rig up electric ones.

2 That's good advice about refitting the power steering if you can. My Clipper is right hand drive, so came without it because it could not be fitted as an option. As a result, I'm developing an impressive physique! You'll want to fit radial tyres of some sort to your car, especially if you sort the suspension bushes and Torsion Level out. Radials will make the steering even heavier at low speeds. But it will drive like a dream.They really do drive like the one in the video at the Proving Grounds when everything is working correctly.

Good luck with the project. You have a great starting point. Lots of fiddly things to do. By the time you're done, you'll be the expert!


b.wilson,
I was thinking of looking for a 352 and just boring it out to 374. But that means I need to source a 352 and then still tear it down to make sure all the clearances check out. If I am going to do that I might as well tear down the 374 we have and check that first before I just go about sourcing another engine. I remember driving the Caribbean and that had decent pick up in Low, but we always kept it in high to prevent the transmission from shifting more than it should. We are going with the Oldsmobile pump in both the Caribbean and Patrician. The Caribbean wont get electric wipers, if there is rain in the forecast it wont go out plus I don't see that going too far from home until new seals are obtained for the doors, top and trunk. The patrician will get electric wipers.

As mentioned above, Id like to go with power steering. Id like more family members to feel comfortable handling this and I feel a lot of them would be turned off if driving the car felt like going to the gym.



Quote:

And when your dad looks down on you, he'll be smiling.

Brian


and thank you for that

Posted on: 2020/4/27 9:08
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#29
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

Leeedy wrote:


You will want to be very, very, very careful about mixing dashes on this factory A/C car. HVAC controls are different. Graphic indicators will be different. Cable lengths and routing are different. Electrical harness is different. Ducting is different. Glove box inners are different. AND there are other differences. Best to leave a factory A/C dash alone unless you are very familiar with the car and the system... and most people aren't.

And disconnecting A/C lines at the firewall may seem very straightforward, but most Packard V-8 factory A/C disasters start right here with someone disconnecting lines without using two fitting wrenches (instead of one). Usually the evaporator core is thus damaged and this usually doesn't show up until one goes to pressurize the system. Then the nightmare begins since the dash and evaporator core need to be pulled to do any repairs. All of which could be avoided by knowing ahead of time and using the right tools and techniques. And the workshop manual does not tell you this!

Someone in the past has apparently done a lot of parts swapping in this Patrician. The more you swap parts, the more you invite problems and unintended disasters. I seriously doubt the manual transmission is original-especially on a loaded A/C car. And you'll be sorry if you don't put the steering back to power steering... unless the driver is a bodybuilder.




Thank you Leeedy for that information!! that is incredibly helpful about the dash boards! I guess I should elaborate on what I wanted to do with the dashes:

The dash board had a Mopar radio fitted to it and a speaker that was mounted by screwing through the gold faced trim. So I don't know if the dash was cut to get this radio to fit (on the list to find out), but at least the gold faced trim needs to be replaced due to the holes created to mount the aftermarket speaker. Luckily one of the other dashboards was an A/C dash if I need to use that frame. I only have the one wiring harness and that was removed from this Patrician. The parts I was thinking of swapping was stuff like gauge bezels, switches etc. Essentially finding the trim pieces that look the best cleaned up and installing onto the dash that goes into the car.


On that topic, is there a polish that can be used on the gold faced trim? I got the turtle wax polish you get at the parts stores and that works great on chrome and stainless, but not so much on that gold faced trim.


Thanks for the warning about the evaporator. I already got the lines removed from the firewall and it appears someone used thread locker on those connections... So it was a pain to remove those lines even without the engine in!! I have no idea how you would be able to do it with the engine in there. But I was interested in doing what HH56 did with one of his A/C cars and retro fit a newer style evaporator, compressor and condenser in. I do have the original style compressor but from the research here no one has been able to find replacement parts for that. Also, the byplass valve (I believe that's what it is called) is more than difficult to source.

My dad removed the power steering and installed that 3 speed. I would like to install the power steering once the car gets on the road, the hoses and power steering pump was still mounted in the car when it rolled into the garage and I believe the power components that were removed are sitting up in our Packard shed. To my understanding the car was running and driving after the 3 speed was swapped in. I don't have information on if the overdrive worked, but the wiring is there, and the transmission will be gone through.

Posted on: 2020/4/27 8:55
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
#30
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Just a small update.

Not too much happened in the past couple months. Needed to fix the multiple leaks in the family's old Dodge Charger and that took a lot longer than I anticipated, but it usually does. I finally got that done and took it for a small cruise around town before I started to tear into the Patrician again. I got the dash board and dash wiring and associated engine bay wiring out of the car. In the process I removed the toe plate with the TreadleVac and the column as well. The TreadleVac was sent to Ross Miller to get rebuilt for the Caribbean and the one on the Caribbean will be rebuild and used on the Patrician. We had two spare 56 senior dash boards in the Packard Shed and I took those two and the Patrician dash out to Pittsburgh with me to build one with the best parts.

The main goal is to get the car pretty much stripped of components while leaving it a roller to get all the dirty sanding and metal work done before the cold weather hits. That way I can start the paint and paint prep over winter and spring of next year to hopefully get it running before next year is out. During this time the engine and trans will be rebuilt. While that is being done at the parent's house Ill be trying to get the trans work done in Pittsburgh, dash painted as well as interior trim painted. I also hope to get the seats to an upholstery shop before the end of the year to get some holes in the moleskin patched up.

Posted on: 2020/4/24 8:14
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