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Board index » All Posts (1941Packard)




Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#11
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1941Packard
Quote:

Packard Don wrote:
One it’s enabled, it engages and disengages automatically, hence the wiring to the transmission and the governor. Also, there is a kick-down switch that knocks if off momentarily when the pedal is pressed to the floor for passing.


I know that...That's why I was asking what would happen if the plunger left engaged if the overdrive was a completely manual operation. Either by use of a cable mechanism or electronic linear actuator/plunger.

Posted on: 2023/11/28 13:25
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Re: Performance parts for 282 (intake, exhaust, etc)
#12
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1941Packard
Quote:

Packard Don wrote:
It’s major work to put a modern transmission into a pre-1951 Packard due to the motor mounts. Packard had a single one up front and a pair at the transmission. Those rear transmission supports would not work with a modern transmission so you would have to post 1950 engine, then add the mounts to the frame to accept it.


Yea, I assume the transmission mount would have to be cut/welded. As well as a custom driveshaft would be needed.


This place sells the adapter plates:https://transmissionadapters.com/products/packard-288-327-359-straight-8-to-chevy-automatic-transmission

Posted on: 2023/11/28 13:10
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#13
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1941Packard
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
What would be interesting would be if someone with both solenoids at hand could compare R9 and R11 solenoid plungers to see if any parts would interchange. I doubt they would but if that were a possibility it would open up some repair or conversion options. If an R11 repro that comes in 6 and 12v versions could also be compared to see if the r9 plunger could be swapped it would be even better.

Here are differences between solenoid plunger length as well as the bare R9 plunger assy with the ball on the end (ball is almost hidden at the end of plunger in the photo). If the repro solenoid plunger also had a similar travel and a screw on end cap that could remove so the inner shaft with the different lengths could be swapped it would open up lots of possibilities.

Note: I believe BDeB posted the R11 photo some years ago but am not sure if the photo shows the plunger extended or not. If not then it would extend around 1/2 inch to bring the extended measurement to about 1 1/2" so overall length of the R11 extended would be roughly 3/4" shorter than the R9.


For something so simple...It would seem that even if the plungers aren't interchangeable, you could just modify/weld on to the plunger to get the correct length. But even the R11s in 12 volt look hard to come by at the moment, and I'd hate to spend $300 on something just to start welding on it.

Is it not possible to just engage and disengage the overdrive manually? I mean, it's only a plunger going in and out. Obviously you'll lose features such as downshifting if you floor it, automatic engaging/disengaging... but would simplify getting it going.. I'm sure there are other, simpler electronic versions of plungers as well that would just have to be adapted to the case to fit.

What happens if you forget to disengage overdrive as your speed drops?

Posted on: 2023/11/28 12:21
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#14
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1941Packard
Quote:

Packard Don wrote:
Without the overdrive connected but with the rear end ratio that the overdrive Packard used, you probably would not want to drive much beyond 50 mph.


Yup. I'm aware of that as rear end ratios are mentioned in the manual.

Posted on: 2023/11/28 12:16
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Re: Performance parts for 282 (intake, exhaust, etc)
#15
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1941Packard
Quote:

Wat_Tyler wrote:
From the For What It's Worth Department:


As an owner of 3 of the 282 engines, one in a driver, I think that the best high performance part that you could install would be a 327. That would be the equivalent of boring it a quarter inch (I believe the stroke is the same). I wouldn't spend a nickel on trying to improve a 282.


But, it is yours, so do what you like and have fun doing it.


I would definitely take a 327/359 if anyone has one laying around and they will bolt right into my 41. I can also run a GM transmission with one of those engines as there are adapter plates and probably a little more availability on heads/intakes, but still rare..

Posted on: 2023/11/28 12:13
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Re: Performance parts for 282 (intake, exhaust, etc)
#16
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1941Packard
Quote:

Ozstatman wrote:
Quote:
1941Packard wrote:......Was anything ever produced for these engines........

Short answer is yes. Specifically by Edmunds who made a finned Aluminium (Aluminum) head and also a 2 x 2bbl intake manifold. I don't know of any other 282 specific performance parts. Owners might have fabricated custom exhaust headers or 4bbl intake manifolds themselves. I think{?} there could have been other manufacturers but Edmunds is the most well known.

Edmunds "stuff" does come up for sale ocasionally, you just have to keep an eye out for it.

Otherwise one way to get some horsepower gains out of your 282 would be a good old fashioned port and polish job on the intakes and exhausts. Probably 20hp in that? Another way would be to mill the head to increase the compression ratio. BUT you have to be very careful doing this because there's not much clearance between the valve heads and combustion chambers on those engines


I appreciate your response! I was not aware anything was made for the 282. I would definitely be interested in a head/intake if anyone has them laying around.

Thanks!

Posted on: 2023/11/28 0:31
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#17
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1941Packard
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
No. The R11 plunger length that extends into the overdrive mechanism and locks into the pawl is a different length. R9 extended is about 2 1/4" and R11 extended is about 1". R9 solenoids and relay boxes are unique to that unit. R9 relays are still out there but are getting expensive. .

Resistors do not work well with solenoids and overdrives in general. Trying to run a 6v overdrive at 12v using a dropping resistor is almost a guaranteed way to burn something out. The solenoid pulls a heavy current when moving but considerably less when just holding in an extended position. The value and wattage of a resistor would need to be different in each situation to get a proper voltage drop.

Gotchya... Sounds like I may have to forgo the overdrive function in my ride...

Posted on: 2023/11/28 0:18
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#18
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1941Packard
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Here is an easier to follow diagram for the overdrive. 41 uses the R9 version which is a bit more complex electrically than the later R11 overdrive. The R11 solenoid can and has been energized manually with a switch because its coils are wired differently but don't know if anyone has tried it with the R9.

In order to bring the R9 solenoid in without the relay box, both terminal 3 and 4 must be jumped together and powered at the same time. 3 is the hold coil but that coil is not strong enough to move the plunger against the spring by itself. 4 is the pull in coil and it does the work of moving the plunger but is a coil that pulls a lot of current and gets hot so gets disconnected when the plunger is fully extended. Without the hold coil also energized at the same time as the pull in coil the plunger will just repeatedly pull in and almost instantly drop out so in effect the solenoid "machine guns".

The power to terminal 3 goes thru a relay coil which increases resistance in the circuit and puts the hold coil the solenoid in a series arrangement. Whether the hold coil is able to be powered constantly at 6v without overheating because the second relay coil is not in the circuit is unknown.

There are some other functions such as the ign cutout and the kickdown that may not be able to be duplicated well without the relay. Until someone tries, no idea now much an issue not having those functions will be.


Hmmm... That sounds a bit more complicated than I hoped for. Would I be able to install an R11 solenoid to this transmission? Looks like they make those new.

I would be more than happy to just run a switch to the dash for the function of overdrive. I assume I'd need a resistor to bring the voltage down to 6 volts, if I'm running a 12V battery.

Posted on: 2023/11/27 23:43
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#19
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1941Packard
Because I am missing wiring and the relay, etc for the overdrive unit - I'm guessing I can just wire the overdrive solenoid to a toggle switch. Would just have to remember to disengage it when my speed drops. Or, even better, run it to a GPS speed activate/deactivate switch.


It looks like there is a fill and drain plug for both the transmission and overdrive unit.

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Posted on: 2023/11/27 22:58
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Re: Need a bunch of parts for my 1941 120
#20
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1941Packard
Quote:

bkazmer wrote:
The factory drum breaks can lock up the wheels- the braking distance will be set by the tires at almost locked. Disk brakes will improve fade resistance on repeated hard stops but not necessarily stopping distance. My point is what are you expecting disk conversion to do?


I simply prefer disc brakes over drums. Easier (in my opinion) to work on, power brakes will work better, etc.. I have no interest in preserving originality on this car at this point. I'm also going with 12V, which I know will cause some people's heads to explode.

Posted on: 2023/11/27 20:52
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