I am puzzled by one of the photos of the Australian "shed"'s cars.

There is a '38 - 39" "Senior" Packard - the alternately painted radiator shutters, if orig., would make it a '39, and thus with that body, it would HAVE to be a V-12 (I have seen people paint the radiator shutters on '38 "Super Eights" to make them APPEAR to be '39 Twelves from a distance..)

That's what puzzles me - a V-12 in Australia ? Who can straighten me out on this ?

To my knowledge, there was never a "kit" to convert Twelves to right hand drive ( would have required a different exhaust manifold to "clear" the steering gear). And, it is my understanding is that any car licensed in Australia HAS to be RIGHT hand drive.

Baloney. Horse feathers. The "jury is not out". A ZIS is a ZIS. It is what some Russian engineers at the ZIS (again, loose translation STALIN MOTOR WORKS) came up with after examining a REAL Packard.

Let's try it again. Packard HAD NO DIES FOR BODIES. Their car bodies were built by BRIGGS. Their chassis frames were made by AO Smith. Gemmer made the steering gear. Packard did not make its own pot metal decorative fittings - look CLOSELY st them - they were purchased from industry suppliers, like most everything else on post 1939 Packards.

Were Russian engineers good at "reverse engineering". They durn well had to be. If "Uncle Joe" wanted something that LOOKED something like an American luxury car, guess what would happen to you if you didnt compy,...!

CKD was the standard abbreviation in the auto industry for overseas shipments that were partially dis-assembled, so that local workers could re-assemble them, and thus avoid very high import tarrifs. It is simply an abbreviation for "CONTAINER - KNOCKED DOWN".

= = = = = =

(added later - sorry guys - you all answered this turkey very well - didnt see your answers or I wouldnt have taken up space repeating what John and the rest of you said so very well....!) my apologies !

Chrysler Corp (MoPar) used the same U joints in the front of the drive shaft on its automatic transmission cars clear into the 1960's (perhaps beyond, I dont know). My recollection is that there were only TWO sizes used on passenger cars, so your local NAPA or other "counter" type auto parts store MAY be able to get BOTH for you to compare which one yours is, and then return the one that does NOT match up. I presume you know you will need an accurate press to press the pin out.

Of course I remember you, John - hope you are having fun with your '53 Patrician, and tell it that I DEMAND it treat you right !

Incidentally, Kingman is in the "other" Arizona, the hot western desert to the west of us - I am in the much cooler "high country" - just north of Prescott - in north central Arizona !

Next time you talk to Roger, tell him "Peter" says HI...!

By the way, ask Roger if he knew that Charlie Last worked for Noll when he came back from the Navy after the War (that is where Charlie originally got his Packard Twelve training...!)

Hi Dave !

At least I think your name is Dave. Refresh my memory; dont you have a "356" ( Clipper Super ) and live in Ontario ?

Are you anywhere near Killarney (a resort town on the north shore of Lake Huron ? We have a Lake (amphib. aircraft owner's convention) there on the weekend of Sept. 6-7). Love to see your Clipper - as we discussed, we had a Clipper Super for many years.

Yes, I am a member of the CCCA, along with many other old car buff organizations. No, I dont wear those silly pants or hats !

Which reminds me, did you ever see my post (before I got kicked off of the AACA site) explaining to you that if you are getting an average of 15 mpg that is just fine for your engine ?

In the post that got me kicked off the AACA site, I explained that the "22 mpg" you heard, probably came from old MOBIL OIL COMPANY "Mobilgas Economy Run" info. In that post, I explained that, yes, a '47 Packard DID get 22 mpg, but you shouldnt feel bad, as that was either a six or a small eight, much lighter and less powerful cars.

The fact that "big" engined Packards are MUCH faster and more powerful then the "junior" cars... seems to get some people all upset. They think we are some kind of snobs. Nothing could be further than the truth, which is simply Packard gave a good car for the money in ALL the price classes it competed in. I cant imagine why a guy with a "junior" Packard would feel offended if Packard ALSO gave good value for the money in the much higher price classes it also competed in !

Dont forget to let me know how far you are from Killarney!

P F H

New visitor - can't help but marvel at how informative and valuable this forum is ! Some great stuff in here.

I did spot one MINOR error in some out-of-the way info. that might be of interest to my fellow Packard V-12 fans.

In the section discussing "general information" about the 1938 Senior Series, your info. claims "THE TWELVE SHARED THE SAME CHANGES AS THE SUPER EIGHT, IT ALSO USED THE SAME CHASSIS".

I suspect I know where this nonsence came from. In the late Bev. Kimes excellent book, one of her sources made the same goofy statement.

The fact is, under the sheet metal, the Packard Twelve was a MUCH heavier, more robust car, and EVERYTHING on the chassis frame, under-carriage parts, including, but not limited to springs, suspension components, wheels, brakes, king-pins, steering gear, steering knuckles, etc. reflected the heavier-duty requirements. NONE of them will interchange.

This does NOT make ANY Packard any "lesser" a car that the Twelve. Be ASSURED Packard DESERVED its reputation for providing the best possible value in any given price class. But to compare or try and confuse a Packard product from one price class to another of a MUCH more expenisve price class, is simply silly.

durn..think I deleted my own post by accident...!

Anyway, a few comments about the "ZIS made from Packard dies" legend.

To understand the basis for the legend, you have to understand the political climate of that era. If you were a hater of President Roosevelt, it made a nice story that mean ole President Roosevelt ruined the Packard Company by taking away their dies, so they couldn't compete in the big car market after World War Two.

Of course it is utter nonsence - first of all, Packard didn't have any dies to give, even if it wanted to. With the destruction of the old "Senior Division" facilities, Packard became pretty much an ASSEMBLER. Frames came from AO Smith. Bodies from Briggs. Interior fittings from one of the several Detroit area suppliers of pot metal trim pieces. Wheels, from Motor Rim And Wheel. Same situation for carbs., electrical systems, etc. We know the basic engine castings of the engine line Packard had before, stayed at the Packard plant, as these were used for post-war Packard production.

I would not be surprised if the STALIN MOTOR WORKS ( that is what ZIS roughly translates into) had agents here who bought some parts from the same suppliers Packard used, and if so, would explain how SOME small parts on the ZIS actually are the same as parts Packards used.

For those of you who are intersted in the phenomena of "back engineering", there is an intersting story floating around the "net" about how the Russians "back-engineered" a seized American B-29 aircraft. My understanding is they even copied a battle-damage patch, not knowing what it was for !