You're correct, this is a very different battery that is usually under-front-seat mounted (closed cars) and under rear rumble seat floorboards (convertible coupes, victorias) from ?1932 or 33 onwards to more or less the end of the Classic era conventional bodies cars. As I recall it's a Group 4. For some years prior to that the same or similar size battery was mounted in the right-front fender battery box. The battery I referred to is also used in the Super Eight and Twelve so it's got plenty of capacity for the Eight.

The battery you're referring to is, I believe, a group 2E, the long skinny one also used in many GM cars of the same era.

I consider the above post still on topic if we are talkin' charging systems -- Gen, Bat, VReg. I am pleased to hear 6V options.

SO, Owen when you say, Quote:
I take it that these are different than the Farm Store batteries that I see. That would fit under my Clipper hood (about 18 x 4 inch footprint). They are about 950 amp hr and sell for $69-$75. they seem a bit lighter than original equip.

Am I on target here?

DanL

Those of you who don't read Hemmings might have missed the pending sale of one the rarest of all postwar Packards, indeed of all Packards. A 1954 Panther-Daytona will be offered for sale at the RM auction at Amelia Island in March. It would appear from the photo which isn't all that great that it might be car #3.

Chart below from The Packard Cormorant Panther Daytona article of some years back.

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The big NAPA or Delco 7210 truck/bus battery goes for about $100 last time I looked.

But if your intent is preservation of original features and historical accuracy, $30 difference on a battery is really a non-issue.

Let us consider the cost issues.

A 7 year 12 volt battery that will start my big V8 will certainly start ANY engine from the 6 v era. It cost about what??? $70 maybe???? What does the optima cost wheather 6v or 12v????? What do the large industrial 6v batteries cost for a Cat, Harvester, or Jim Beam industrial equipment???

What happens if u get 50 or 60 miles from home and the battery craps out???? 12v standard car batteries are rather common place, even at wal-mart.

NO. I'm not trying to make any case here for a 12v conversion. But i'm not trying to make any case against it either. These are judgement calls based on circumstances that vary widely except for the strict purist.

In many cases the strict purist may not know what he is getting until it shows up at the door. Case-in-point. I ordered valves from a vendor. They were SS. Did Packard use SS valves in 56???? So the purist will go ahead and put the valves in and not say anything. No one can see the valves anyway. The owner wants to win his dash plaque. If asked he will say "OH YEEEEEES!. I ordered those from a world class supplier". But it's NOT PURE>

Mal, regarding the loose front wheel bearings. You did not mention anything about using cotter pins to secure the wheel bearings. If memory serves me correctly, these cars have a nut to adjust the wheel bearing preload, then a special washer to lock the adjustment, and finally a nut on the outside of the washer to secure the washer and nut. After this a cotter pin MUST be inserted to fully secure the bearings, nut, washer, and nut. Many times the cotter pin is not used. This means the outside nut is the only thing securing the wheel bearings. The outside nut can work loose. The outside nut IS NOT a lock nut, although it can be tightened like a lock nut. I strongly recommend the use of cotter pins.

A little off topic, but I have found the 6V optima batteries to be very very good. True, they don't look original, but on my cars they are hidden below the seat or in a fender well, so that is not a big deal.

I have had an optima last 10 years with only seasonal use and a trickle charger during the off-season.

We used to have a real problem with sulfation in our wet cell batteries.

Tom

As I come down the home stretch on my research on Packard's "thief-proof" numbers, let me make one more plea for data. Data on any year is useful but I especially need data on 1938 thru 1940, 1942, and 1951 thru 1954. To be useful the data I need are the thief-proof number and the corresponding vehicle number. If a 1941-54 the Briggs number (tag by heater) is also useful.

While the finished publication may show your thief-proof number in a chart or table, there will be no link to your personal identity or that of your particular vehicle.

And thanks again to all those who have already responded.

Thursday 29th January 2009

Drove the '41 down to the workshop this morning. Gee it feels good to be able put those words in print! Put some gas in on the way down, about 30 litres, and the gauge reads about 1/2 full. One thing though was when I started up, after getting the gas, there was a knocking sound for about 2 seconds! After that it ran fine. At Wade's suggestion checked the oil level and as it was down a bit so topped it up with about 1&1/4 litres. Will monitor oil level regularly as there seem to be oil leaks up front and also at rear, but not excessively. Looks like the re-built engine will be coming sooner rather than later.

Reason why the '41 was back at the workshop were the front-end adjustments required as shown by the alignment check last week. Jacked the front up, put jack stands under frame and took off both front wheels. First thing Wade found was that both front wheel bearings were loose! Literally could just about rattle them! And this after I watched Wade tighten them up months ago! Anyway, apart from that, needed to adjust the camber on the right front and caster on the left front.

Did the right front first. Undid the upper arm nut and bolt and removed the bolt and also the tensioning nut and bolt for the shock arm which doubles as the upper arm. Pushed the upright out and tied it up so it wasn't held up by the hydraulic brake line. The offset bushing in the upper arm was positioned so that it was "in". Took a measurement for reference and then reversed the bushing so that it was "out". Result of this was that the top was now about 5/16" further out than before. From the advice Brian gave us last week we were looking for 1/4" and think that 5/16" is close enough to suffice. Then bolted the upright, upper arm and tensioning back together.

Next the left front. Took off the sway bar link so the 15/16" bolts holding the torque arms could be accessed. Using a long bar loosened the bolts then undid them to give enough play to allow 2 of the shims to be inserted. Sounds easy but it wasn't. Took a bit a persuasion to get a gap of sufficient width to allow the shims to be inserted. And of course had to slightly re-cut a couple of the shims I made on Monday for a better fit and also finished them up on the emery and wire wheels. Tightened everything back up including the sway bar link which was the tough part. Also took the opportunity to re-tighten the right side torque arm bolts necessitating removal and re-fit of the sway bar link for that side also.

Then the wheel bearings. Put both wheels back on and then Wade did the right side first. Easy enough, but it took a number of turns to bring the bearings back so that there was no slack or play. Wade got up to stretch himself at that point so I thought I'd finish the job by putting the grease cap back on! But before I could do that I heard a THUD! behind me as Wade hit his head and right ear against, the side-mount on the '38 as he crashed to the floor. Scared the whatever out of me as I jumped up and went to his aid. Just told him to lie still initially but after a minute or two he propped himself up against the fender of the '38 while I went to get him some water. Wade has a little jug of water on his desk and I made a beeline for that but what about a glass? On my way to get one, stopped Rick in his work and pointed him in Wade's direction to help. Located a glass and back to Wade, with Rick now in attendance, and that's when I discovered that Wade's jug has a glass as a stopper in it's top. Now remember Wade showing it to me months ago, but in the stress situation it just didn't click in. Wade's hand was shaky with the first mouthful or two, probably shock, and then settled down. After 5 minutes or so we moved to Wade's desk area and sat down and just took it easy for a while. Kept the fluid up to Wade while asking him if he should be going to hospital or seeing his doctor. Wade insisted he was OK, of course, except for his bleeding ear and the bump he copped in that area! After about another 35/40 minutes then returned to finish the right side wheel bearing. But this time with Wade sitting on a stool giving advice and directions while I did the work part. That was the way it was supposed to be but Wade did still got his hands dirty, can't help himself.

Also took the opportunity to check the oil leaks while we could. It's not apparent where they are but could be from the fuel pump or pulley up front and possibly rear main at back. There is also still a small leak from the O/D solenoid which a thicker gasket might fix.

The other thing I'd mentioned to Wade early in the day was the speedo and speedo cable. So after I got the jack stands out and let the jack down, there was Wade upside down under the dash! He undid the speedo cable from the speedo, see pic, and found that there was a small piece of the cable separate from the main shaft of the cable. Is this right? Sorry I didn't think to take a pic of it. But with the cable now disconnected the inner cable can be seen and next time I have a passenger will have them monitor whether it's turning or not. The other option of removing the dash to take out the speedo is NOT an option at this time and I'll drive without one for a while if necessary.

But back to Wade. I left early so he could relax at the workshop for a while and impressed upon him to need to get help if needed. John and Rick are there and will keep an eye on him I'm sure. I also told him the reason I was so concerned for him was because "where would I find another Packard mechanic like him", so he knew my true intentions! Seriously though, you'll notice there are no pic's of Wade on the floor after the fall or propped up against the '38 so my papperazzi instincts must need fine tuning! And I wish Wade a speedy recovery as I told him I'll see him tomorrow morning at the workshop!

EDIT - Pic added of Wade's disassembled '34 grill ready to go to be re-chromed.

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For all those traveling to the meet.....safe journey and I shall see you folks there.