Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

If this has already been addressed in this forum, I apologize and ask that you direct me to the appropriate post.
Caveat: Purists will cringe.
I am at a crossroads with my 51 Patrician. The engine needs considerable work.I bought it as an non-running project. It needs everything. I have no idea why it was parked to begin with - over 20 years ago. I have no idea what condition the Ultramatic is in.

My inclination is to stick with the S8 and Ultra, but I guess I'm asking for other suggestions. I am considering an update to a more modern powerplant - NOT a SBC. More than likely a small-block MoPar - carbureted with a TF auto. I have read what articles I can find about various powerplants.

If I am going to go that far, I have considered changing the front suspension. I have friends who have converted other vehicles using Nova type, Volare type and Dakota pickup assemblies. Not, however, on a Packard.

Has anyone put a 'clip' on their 51 -54 Packard? and what did you use?

I am not looking to make this a show car. I want something different from the other guys that my wife can get in and drive, go on a cruise now and then and perhaps take on a moderate road trip.

Any helpful comments would be welcomed. And who knows, perhaps it'll be moot and I'll stick with original stuff. Wanting to weigh all options.

I have never done nor seen the swap done on a Packard but the process would be similar to any other car really. Most of the swaps I have seen used metric chassis GM stuff (think 80's Regal Monte Carlo Cutlass ect) or a Trans am or Comaro sub frame. If the track width is not right on you can cut the cross member and adjust as needed either making it wider or narrower. The problem with something like a Nova is the ease of finding parts, yes you will have a lot of aftermarket support but finding parts in any random parts store may be problematic though I have never looked for Nova or Volare parts ever. The Dakota (or any truck set up) is the front will ride like a truck and IMO if you want a vehicle to ride like a truck you should buy a truck. You should stick with something factory built not an aftermarket set up IMO. If you are wanting to get better braking Wilwood does make a disk brake set up and you have to decide on what you are wanting the suspension to do that it is not currently able to do. I am all for modifying things but if you are just wanting to do an engine swap its much easier to weld in some motor mounts than cut the front end off the car.
With the engine options I love the L8 engines they look like I feel an engine should but they are pricey to build up even if you go stock compared to something more modern. You will be committing no less sin by swapping a Mopar into it than a SBC and if you went with the SBC option you would save piles of money that you can spend on all the other stuff that the car needs. The SBC is probably the cheapest best bang for the buck option out there a close second would be something like the modern LS Chevy engine. I am no means a Chevy fan but a quick flip through any parts catalog will show you that a Ford or a Mopar small block will cost roughly 10-15% more to build to an equal power level than a Chevy.
If you wanted something really unique and had some bucks to blow a Ford FE Chrysler Hemi (392) or even a MEL engine would be really cool and Packard did build a pretty nice V8.
At the end of the day you are only limited by your wallet and level of skill, don't get in over your head it would be sad to have the car all cut up only to find you cant get it back together.
Good luck and hope this helps.
PS If you need a new home for that L8 and Ultramatic let me know :D

I don't think the problem with your '51 is the front clip/suspension; that's actually pretty decent for a 1950s car. If the L8 and Ultra is in fact junk, then I personally have no problem dropping in something else. I've personaly seen Caddy 472s, SBCs, Pontiacs (350-400-455) and probably anything else you'd like/could find since the engine compartment is large, the possibilities are extensive.

The rest of the car can remain as is, except if it has a BTV. If it has manual brakes, then you are good to go on that one too since it doesn't sound like this going to end up to be a daily driver.

Craig

What is it that makes u want to change the front suspension!!!? Whats wrong with it.

Just rebuild the front suspenion IF it needs it. As Craig indicates comvert the BTV to a modern master cylinder/power unit.

Btw: a "clip" refers to body sheet metal. Stub or stub frame is technically the the change u are discussing.

I've read your post. No sarcasm intended here but quite frankly u are obviously amatuer level at best and therefore the engine/trans swap really should be an sbc. Something ANYONE can handle with superb results.
However, i would make a serious and conscious attempt to determine the condition of the original engine FIRST.

markincoosbay -

I can understand your frustration with trying to resurrect a non-running vehicle that needs everything.

However, a Mopar V8 in a Packard is nothing new. Over 20 years ago, Mike Dulinski (of MN) installed not only a old Chrysler V8, but the TF trans, rear axle, and (tailored) driveshaft in a 55 Packard 400, while retaining the T-L suspension. He calls it the 'Pacsler' and even towed with it. Installing a complete drivetain from another car had to be a lot easier (and smarter) than playing mix-n-match.

In more recent years, another member, here, dropped the body from a 48 model onto a Dakota chassis and drove the thing all over the place, but we haven't heard from him in quite some time. I believe Keith (PackardV8) has the original, running chassis from that car.

Not sure what you hope to accomplish by installing a front suspension from something like a Nova - even from one of the few years that an SS with BBC was offered.

Dunno why anyone would think of using a Volare suspension - perhaps the poorest example of a torsion bar front suspension to ever hit the streets. Yeah, Chrysler Corp. pimped out the Volare/Aspen (F-body) platform for years to make the Diplomat, Lebaron, GranFury, NewYorker, and FifthAvenue (M-bodies) and even the Mirada, Cordoba and Imperial (RWD J-bodies), but those were some of the sloppiest riding/handling cars I ever had the misfortune to drive.

Front wheel track (tread width) of your 51 Pat is spec'd at 60". The 68-79 Nova is close at 59.8, but those Mopar M- and J-bodies are only 58.2". Are you really up for all the work involved in splitting/stretching a crossmember and then trying to fit it to the Packard frame? I'm not sure if you could even do that with Volare/Aspen suspension since the torsion bars are mounted transversely.

Meanwhile, other than seals and bearings, you're not likely to find replacement parts for these other cars sitting on the shelf of any parts store when you need 'em.

What's the conventional coil/leaf suspension on your Packard lacking that these other cars have?

I'd think it would be easier and less costly to find and install a good used Packard engine and trans. If you want something different, mebbee upgrade it to a 4-bbl., open up the exhaust, apply custom paint/trim, etc. - stuff that can be easily undone. Dunno what it would take to add a supercharger.

Much of the stub frame conversions have their place. Such as stubbing a henry j or a prewar ford. Such cars were relatively either weak or too low teck chassis wise for modern demands since the mid 50's.
The Packards cadillacs big chryslers etc certainly have a chassis as good.as if.not superior to any modern day midsize or smaller car.

Years ago, one of the Packards North Texas folks in Dallas had a 52 or 53 pink Packard with a Packard V8 in it. I don't know, but I suspect that that would be a fairly easy swap, since the chassis of a 55 isn't much different from a 51-54 model. I agree with some of the other writers that it is much easier to find a nice running Packard engine and transmission and drop that in rather than trying to engineer a safe handling and running hybrid. I know of two running 55/56 models here in Billings MT you could pickup for less than $5000, swap the running gear and part out the rest to defray your cost. There is also a good 54 Patrician available for close to that price as well. It has the nine main bearing 327 with a four barrel and an Ultramatic.

Thanks for all of the comments.
I wouldn't consider myself an amateur. I've restored a 1957 Chrysler Windsor and a 1954 New Yorker. Nearly all of my experience has been with Chrysler Products from 1950 to 1973 or so. I've owned literally dozens of them. Certainly my favorite marques.

Definitely an amateur with Packards however. My 51 Imperial drove like a truck with the stock suspension. The 54 New Yorker was slightly better with radials. The 57 Windsor with torsion bar suspension was great. The best thing I did for that car was converting to front disc. Easy bolt-in swap. Made a world of difference in driving and piece of mind. My favorite to date was the 66 300 I had.

I have never condoned "cutting a car up". Having never driven a 51 Packard (or any Packard for that matter) I'm not sure what to expect. I really don't want it to behave like the Imperial. I don't expect it to drive as nice as the 300.

The only other straight 8 I had was a 50 New Yorker. The Fluid Drive in it wasn't stellar, but it worked as it should. I had to have the unit rebuilt - not cheap. I had the hemi engine rebuilt in the 51 - not cheap.

At this point, I will keep working on the Thunderbolt. I love the sound these things make and I love the nostalia of the big straight engine. I guess I'll see what the ultra looks like when the time comes.
Thanks again for the comments.

The Ultramatic in the setting of very early automatic transmissions are very good. They were probably one of the strongest ones of the era, not the best for performance but strong none the less. If it is sound it shouldn't give you much if any trouble. The torque converters were ahead of their time, the biggest issue is the fact that they don't shift from first to second. The low range was made for around town where you needed quicker pickup and the high range was for highway driving. You can shift it your self but Packard didn't recommend it and it may lead to accelerated wear.