Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Hi to you all!

The problem is that I have a weak spark. If I connect the negative coil wire directly to the battery ( bridging the starter switch) this situation this seems to be completely cured. So in my opinion I have to check out the wiring from the coil to the ignition switch and from the switch (I think the red cable) into the wiring harness under the dash.

I want to remove the ignition switch from the dashboard of my Clipper. Does anyone have a clue on how to do that? I already searched the forum but can't find any information and the manual does not go into the matter either.

Any suggestions on the problem?

Thanks guys.

54 and later ign switches are not known for their longevity or durability so that might be a good place to start looking for the problem.

Switch is held in the dash by a spring load on the bezel. If you look at the pictures you see the bezel has a rectangular opening and the switch has a square on it's face which fits into that opening. The black wavy piece is a spring.

To remove, disconnect the battery and then push the switch from behind the dash toward the bezel. Once the spring is compressed a little, the bezel can be turned 90 degrees and will come off. The switch can then be pulled back and removed from the dash. If it is the switch, good luck finding a proper 54 switch. Since it was a one year only, they are starting to get hard to find and expensive.

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Thanks Howard!

Yes I suspect the switch and its environment to be the cause of the problem. With the ignition switch on and starting the engine I get no spark at all, only when letting the key go. In the last moment a spark occurs at the end of the primary high tension cable. Bridging the switch and cranking the engine with the starter motor a series of healthy sparks occur at the end of the samen cable.

Another problem is that these helathy sparks don not seem to arrive at the spark plugs, only a very weak spark rests. So my guess is that there is a problem with the modern silicone spark plug cables, in my opinion to much built in resistance. The spark plugs have a resistor too as they are marked S for radio suppression. My guess is that replacing the silicone plug leads with massive copper core ones will cure the problem. Maybe other non suppressed plugs would help also.

Are there any suggestions or experiences out there?

Thanks!

It is quite true that 6V cars do not like resistor wires. If your car has the Delco distributor, the rotor already has a resistor in it.

The Clipper has an Autolite arrangement, Ross. But the fact that it's wise to avoid resistance still stands. I'll remove the existing leads this afternoon ready for a changeover later this week. First have to buy new wire and other sundries. It gives me time to sort out the ignition switch and the wiring under the dash to eliminate the low voltage part of the ignition trouble.

By the way, haven't had a chanco to test my rebuilt WGD carburator due to the starting trouble. In the meantime I've found a better carburator body in the spare parts I got when buying the car. The casting looks far better quality than what I had in the first place and the connection for the heat sink pipe is in much better condition. I hope the results of all this will be a good starting and running Clipper.

Well, I removed the ignition switch to find out it is OK. As it was out of the car I gave it some cleaning and a bit of lubrication. Should do the job nicely I think.

By the way I should add that the car has been equipped with a pointless electronic ignition, which functions OK once the engine is running. What I suspect is that this ignition has been added trying to solve the starting problems, but at no result because the basic problem lies somewhere else. IMO it is even completely unnecessary, points should be quite alright in a properly functioning setup. It is even possible that the electronic ignition has a voltage treshold, below which it doesn't function at all where breaker point would still (weakly) work.

OK, with the ignition switch out I connected the wires to and from the switch together except the one to the starting motor solenoid. Then I cranked the engine 'by wire' from the solenoid to the battery. Yesterday I thought that I had healthy sparks when jumping the ignition switch, but it turned out not to be the case. Result of taking out the ignition switch and connecting the wiring behind it was basically the same as yesterday: a few strong sparks to start with, then nothing at all and a strong spark when cutting the power to the starter solenoid. I gave it another try, but connecting the - from the ignition module directly to the - of the battery, in fact ruling all the other wiring and having the ignition permanently switched on. You can't minimize it further I think. It gave the same result...

My theory was that the battery was a good suspect, good voltage when starting cranking, then a voltage drop which cuts out the ignition and a voltage rise at the end when the power to the starting motor is cut off. To check this theory I borrowed a good 6V 110 A battery out of a driving and starting Willy's MB jeep from a friend and gave it another try in the same setup. Result was no cranking at all, which confused me. After switching batteries the starting motor turned again.

My conclusion is that my battery is capable of turning the starting motor but it is to weak to maintain a proper spark, even with all the spark plugs removed i.e. without compression. My friends battery cannot turn the starting motor at all. IMO that leads to the starting motor being a good new suspect as there are no more suspicious components in my simple testing setup.

So after removing the starting motor I gave it a try on the workshop floor. My battery turned the motor although I think not completely freely and my friend's battery didn't do the job at all.

So this is how it is now. My next step will be disassembling, inspecting and cleaning the starting motor and having it tested professionally on a test bench.

What is your opinion on the situation guys? Ever had similar experiences? Suggestions?

It is indeed a voltage threshold problem--I believe the minimum trigger is 5.3 volts. Some may be higher.

This is why the Pertonix I had in my 51 is sitting in a box. I got tired of drift starting the car when it was cold or hoping the engine would catch as I let off the starter. It did seem to run very nicely underway--but with fresh points it both runs and starts nicely.

That's exactly what I expected, Ross.

In the meantime I've removed and opened up the starter. It is a Delco Remy unit. I cleaned everything up, at first glance nothing seems to be wrong with it. After all the motor was functional just a bit sluggish.

The thing is that the commutator needs redressing a bit, nothing serious, no deep grooves. The other thing is that the mica between the copper bars needs undercutting. Funny that you read on various places on the internet never to undercut the mica on a starter motor because of the copper-carbon brushes. They would wear rapidly and fill the spaces between the bars thus causing a short. Urban legend????

On the other hand the Packard manual suggest undercutting to 0.030. I guess it is wise to follow the manufacturer's instructions, don't you?

many people with 6 volt cars had the same problem you describe when they switched to electronic ignition.one major supplier in this area stopped selling them for this reason. Those who switched back to points said the problem disappeared.

That might also be the road I will have to travel. But first I will reassemble the starter, reconnect the ignition switch and get some low-resistance plug leads. If all this does not help the situation, then retrofitting to breaker points is the way to go.

That might be a project on its own, because the contact breaker plate was modified to accept the optic sensor. In fact they removed the pivot pin for the points and the wire connection on the outside of the distributor. Sunny side is all the parts are there so restoring the breaker plate will no doubt be possible.