Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

On the safety front, since I have BTV or "Crashamatic" as I like to call those brakes, I thought it would be a very good idea to invest in 4 seat belts for my '54 Clipper Deluxe sedan. I will have them installed professionally, as I do not like to tamper with safety devices such as brakes, steering etc. on my own. Call it lack of confidence or a willingness to have someone else bear (or at least share) in responsibility (and liability?) but that's my theory and I'm stickin' with it.

My installer recommended that I get the "long" style, which is 74", due to the high seat position. The jury is out on whether that's the right choice. I also ordered the "vintage" style with "chrome lift latch" and will see how well that works out, too.

Any comments or experiences with seat belt installation would be welcome.

Thanks.

I would also check into a three point belt that goes over the driver's shoulder from behind as well.

I knew this guy - Charlie Clancy - who smacked up his '79 Lincoln Town Car and even with the collapsible steering column received a chest injury that had him in the hospital.

The Packard frame was noted for decapitation risk because the steering column would swing up toward the header bar as the driver was flying toward the windshield.

With the seat belt the driver will still hit the steering column in a high speed crash.

Tim,

Thank you for your input. I was warned away from the 3-point as requiring much modification of the "B" pillar to get it right, and even then sometimes running into very difficult engineering problems. This was from an installer with a great deal of experience, and I don't think he would have minded making the extra money he could've with 3-point belts, he just didn't think it was a practical alternative.

I have driven the car with NO restraints on the highway, and usually manage to persuade myself that I'm in less danger than a motorcyclist traveling on the same road at the same speed. I still think this is true, and if I were planning on keeping the driving pleasure solely to myself, I might not put belts in. But, I find it really hard to have passengers who might be at greater risk with no restraints. And, as I always like to say, (gallows humor intended) "I need to protect my dashboard from expensive dents."

The decapitation risk will not go away for the driver even if he has a 4-point racing harness and a helmet. I know that in a lower speed crash, the driver would be likely to get some bruises, or worse, from the steering wheel, but I think the belt would still improve things enough to be worth it. In any kind of crash, belts at least keep you inside the car, and stop you from flopping around, especially in a rollover.

Those are just my thoughts so far. Others have probably put more thought into this, and have some real world experience.

BTW I take it your friend Charlie didn't have any belt on at all? The '79 Town Car I believe, had 3-point belts if you cared to use them!

In the case of the Lincoln Town Car - he was wearing the shoulder belt but still hit the steering wheel. That's why air bags became mandatory. The belt kept his chest from being crushed but he still had fractured ribs.

The kind of three point I was talking about is not inertia reel to the B pillar but one that goes over the seat back and bolts to the floor behind the driver the same way as the belt. It's harder to use and still has some forward movement, but better than nothing at all. And of course the four point belt would be even better.

This is one of the reasons I don't advocate driving old cars at high speeds. If you put an overdrive into a 1933 Packard touring car and crack up you are a dead duck.

I awhile back in Maryland a truck ran over a Model A like a lawnmower. Things were better back with 55 mph limits, but today the speed limits are for vehicles with airbags.

This is an interesting post. I have two lap belts in the front seat of my Clipper, but none in the back, which does bother me. Volvo was the first car company to provide seat belts as standard equipment in 1955. With that in mind, I am sure that car companies like Packard must have offered seat belts as available options, although I do not know that for sure.

Sometimes people will stop by to talk to me about the Clipper and invariably someone will say, "Boy, look at all the steel in that car! This is the kind of car I'd want to be in if I was in a wreck."

I smile and point to any late-model car in the vicinity, usually something like a Toyota or a Honda, and reply, "Not me -- if I had to be in a wreck I'd rather be in one of those instead of the Clipper." I explain that even though the newer cars are generally a lot smaller, they come equipped with multiple air bags, 3-point seat belts, and crumple zones, all designed to protect a driver or passenger in an accident.

As proof, I offer this YouTube video featuring a head-on accident between a 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air and a 2009 Chevrolet Impala.

youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g

Take a guess which car wins ...

By the way, Guy, I agree with you about having a professional install the belts. They probably know the best points to bolt them into place.

Mr. Bumble,

I sure hope these guys know where and how to anchor the belts!

BTW if anyone is ordering belts, be sure to order mounting hardware at the same time. These are available on the websites, but they must be bought separately.

The 1959 Impala had an "X" frame rather than a "box or ladder" frame leaving little for the body to anchor to on the side which may have contributed to the way that 59 folded up. I'd be willing to bet that my 1960 Imperial, which in a head on wreck took out a 1968 Chev Impala in 1972 by pusining the entire front end of the chev - including the engine - into the passenger compartment, would fare better. Were it not for the engine mounts breaking loose and letting the fan nibble on the radiator, my Imperial could have been driven home.

I on the other hand, was not wearing my seat belt and ended up in the hospital with multiple head injuries which culminated in my having to have plastic surgery to put my face back on at the ripe old age of 24.

The 68 Chev crossed two lanes of traffic to nail me coming around a curve. The driver of the other car WAS wearing a seat belt and walked away.

Nice testimonial for seat belts, even in older cars and olden times. For a driver of a '68 Impala to have his seat belt on in '72 was fairly unusual. Maybe he had seen a few of what I call "believer" cars-- wrecks that have a perfectly preserved interior except for a crushed steering wheel and a big hole in the windshield right in front of the driver's seat! I've seen too many of those to listen to any malarky about how not having seat belts on has saved people who were "thrown clear"... those incidents constitute very rare exceptions to the rule: when a car suddenly stops, unrestrained bodies inside will continue forward at the same velocity until they encounter a solid obstruction.

Well, the car is in the body shop (Car Creations--restoration and customizing shop) for seatbelt install. I've also asked them to look at the rusted floors in front where the wing windows were leaking. The rusted out sections are right above a body mount on each side, so, guess what else is rusty?

I bet several people here have repaired or replaced body mounts on these cars. I'm wondering whether people have found it better to go with new plain rubber bushings like the originals, or upgrade to something exotic like neoprene?

Anybody in favor of replacing all the bushings?

Also, once the floors are done, I want to seal them with something and have heard two products mentioned on these forums: Seamless, and Por 15. I'm more familiar with Por 15, but someone said something good recently about Seamless giving a good original look... I just want whatever will treat the rust best and hold up well, preventing further rust even in the presence of moisture.