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According to model listing in the 1948-1954 Packard parts book, the 1953 Mayfair and Convertible are 300. Aren't these 250?

Another general Parts Book question is on the model listing for each part. It seems to contain both body number and chassis number together although some parts specify a body number in parenthesis. Some do not seem to exist at all. For example 1n 2602-06-13-26-31 there is no body or chassis number 2602 that I can find other than in the model listings here on this site. My question is, was there model number, chassis number and body number as three separate things? I am trying to figure out what to use in my Parts Book database.

Also, are there any knowledgeable Henney people here? I thought I was one myself having owned many Henney-Packards since the '60s but the parts book has me confused. Perhaps it's not a good reference and should not to be believed as they even spelled Henney incorrectly in the introduction!

The first question is: in 1953 the commercial 2613 chassis is listed as having a 1st type and a 2nd type and each have a different starting engine number. Any ideas what this means or what was changed between the types if other than engine? The 1st type has L300000H while the 2nd type has L400000.

The second question is: the senior Henneys are listed as being in the 300 series and the Henney Junior are listed as Clipper, which is news to me on both counts. The senior Henney was a series of its own and the Henney Junior used the 127" wheelbase chassis, albeit with the smaller 288cid engine and Clipper dash, but it is clearly not a Clipper.

Any thoughts on any or all of this?

For reasons that seem to defy logic, the convertible and hardtop as introduced for 1951 were initially in the bottom of the line 200 series - unbelievable that Packard was to blind as to put two of your sexiest cars in the base lineup! But that error was quickly realized and the "250" series, a 1/2 step up, was created for them. But by 1953 they were in the "300" series lineup. And by '54 they were in the Packard lineup as full-fledged senior cars.

I'll guess you haven't yet, so let me recommend you give a good read to Bob Neal's superb book on the 51-54 Packards.

My question is, was there model number, chassis number and body number as three separate things?

Yes, if by model number you mean 200, 300, 400, etc. but for finding part numbers almost always you either need the chassis # for mechanical parts or the body number for body parts. The model # is really kind of irrelevant.

I'll steer clear of the Henney question, there are others who know far more about them than I. But again Neal's book has considerable information on them, as do the several fine articles in the Professional Car magazine by McPherson I believe.

Thank you for the great answer! In the nearly half-century of owning Packards and even running a Web site about them, this is the first I had heard that the Mayfair and Convertible were in the 300 series as I thought that only the Cavalier on the longer 127" wheelbase had that distinction although, of course, I knew that the Pacific and Convertible of 1954 were senior cars, although I never thought of them as being in one series or another. Very interesting indeed! Of course I also knew that they were 200 in 1951 which, as you so deftly pointed out, was very strange indeed and defies logic.

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No, that's not exactly what I meant. I was referring to the model numbers as listed in the Packard Model Info of this site which I thought shows some not mentioned in the parts book. In the parts book are entries such as:

2401-02-06; 2501-02-06-31; 2601-02-06-11-31-33; 5400-01-02-06-11-31-33

. . . which I take to mean:

2401 2502 2406; 2501 2502 2506 2531; 2601 2602 2606 2611 2631 2633; 5400 5401 5402 5406 5411 5431 5433

. . . and which are the Model/Chassis numbers on this site and Body Number in the parts book. However, I was sure I had seen similar entries in the parts book that showed numbers like 5482 5489 5492 5495 5497 which are Chassis Number in the parts book but now that I am looking for an example I cannot find one so perhaps I imagined it! That's what happens when you look at data like this so closely for so long: it all starts to become a blur.

Anyway, I am looking forward to a Henney expert chiming in with additional comments on that part of my question so thanks again for your excellent answer on the rest.

By the way, I have found a number of parts book entries that are just plain incorrect with the wrong model or part numbers!

By the way, I have found a number of parts book entries that are just plain incorrect with the wrong model or part numbers!

Yes, a few errors have been pointed out over the years. But you really have to read thru all the Service Counselors for a complete picture as corrections and/or superceeding part#s and the like are often noted there but as far as I know replacement pages for the parts books were not issued.

Yes, the intention with the parts book database is to crossreference with the Service Counselors which should help clarify such things but I was refering to part and chassis numbers that have actual typos. I was dismayed to see that it even misspelled Henney as Henny! Of course, the database will likely have its own typos since the scans I'm using are of such low quality as to not OCR (Optical Character Recognition) well, if at all, due to the poor quality of the scans I have so I have to proof it line by line. I am seeing it all more intimately than anyone likely ever has!

Any Station Sedans experts here? Although this site will not let me show actual columns, I hope this is understandable as it will appear. I have another parts book question regarding this model entry:

Year Body Chassis Engine Description
1949-50 2393 6 PASS, STATION SEDAN 2393 IS SAME AS 2293

. . . which is missing the Chassis and Engine numbers but has the notation of IS SAME AS 2293. Does this mean that the Chassis and engine are:

Year Body Chassis Engine Description
1948-49 2293 2201 G200000 6 PASS, STANDARD EIGHT STATION SEDAN

. . . like this?

Year Body Chassis Engine Description
1949-50 2393 2201 G200000 6 PASS, STATION SEDAN 2393 IS SAME AS 2293

If so, it seems odd to use two different series designations and an older engine number for a newer car. For my programming to work properly, I do need to populate all the columns with data but this one car had none for Chassis or Engine and I did not want to just start guessing so I'm hoping that someone here can clarify it for me.

Don, as suggested before you really should spend some time with the Bob Neal book. The 23rd Series station sedans were completely unchanged from the 22nd - none of the 23rd Series changes were incorporated. Just browsing Neal quickly I get the impression all 23rd Series station sedans were essentially renumbered leftovers (apparently 955 of them) some even renumbered twice, from a 22nd series 1948 to a 22nd series 1949 and then again to a 23rd Series.

But I did skim it, a more thorough reading would be appropriate.

I would love to but with only SSI for income, it's out of my price range.

Also, on my original question, I wasn't imagining it. I just found some parts book entries that list the body numbers in the model number column and it is throwing off my programming until I figure out how to handle it. There are others too but here is an example.

29.370 GRILLE-EVAPORATOR CASE AIR INLET 457625 5467-77-97
29.380 BEZEL-EVAPORATOR CASE AIR INLET GRILLE 457630 5467-77-97
29.410 GRILLE-EVAPORATOR CASE AIR OUTLET 461272 5467-77-97

I THOUGHT I remembered seeing entries like this!

Don, I guess I don't understand the problem, the parts book is just showing A/C parts particular to the Clippers Super Panama, Pacific, and Clippers Deluxe Sportster.

I haven't a clue as to how to handle in a program you're creating but to be fully useful it will have to accommodate such entries, you'll find more such situations. Wish I could help more.

I applaud your efforts to digitize the parts list, but for me I prefer original hardcopy or reprint. Good luck with your venture.

Yes, I know but it doesn't follow the pattern of any other entries that would have the chassis number, then (BODIES 5467-77-97) after it, as in 2601 (BODIES 2692-95), for example. Inconsistencies and irregularities in the format make programming quite difficult so I'll have to rewrite the entries to match the rest but it won't change the meaning if I do it properly!

I like hardcopy too and often work from printouts but when I want to find all applications of a specific part, it can take so much time that I never bother to do it and, as I have tons of parts, it would be nice to be able to list them properly. Also, I love databases in general, especially when I want to post the information on my site and this makes it all searchable too.