Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I was planning on moving the front engine plate behind the cam gear (that the engine front mount bolts too), the timing cover, the replacement 50 water pump (old one was bad) and the damper from the 50 288 all moved to the 327....should i call and get the 50 timing set or the later one?

No, you can go backwards but not forwards on them. You shouldn't have no problem. The later timing set will fit in the '48-'50 cover, but the later cover won't work on the early timing set. (Obviously)

But i'm using the early cover, and damper, and plate, and water pump. Can i not then use the early (new) timing set as well? As long as i stick with the older cover?

With longer stroke of the 327, one from a 288 (or visa versa), the dampers may well have different characteristics to coincide with the different weight and form of the crankshaft. I'd not recommend damper swapping between the 2 engines without a lot more information. Check the parts listings, not a lot of interchange on the vibration dampers.

I'll consider that but i'd like to stick with the original pulleys if i can (the 53 is the thinner style two belts i believe and the 50 is the wider that i have all the parts for...generator, water pump, etc.). I also believe, back in the 6 volt AC thread, that there was talk of getting the 327 balancer to clear in the 50 chassis, different diameters? Have to check to be sure. I think turbo pointed out that i may have difficulty there, that i'd need the smaller 288 balancer.

As for stroke issues, Pontiac V8's strokes ranged from 3 to 4.21 and all used the same damper. I know that doesn't mean much in the Packard world of straight eights, but the 288 and 327 seem almost the same motor. Was there an external vs internal balance difference? The 288 seems the beefier of the 2 balancers, i don't anticipate any problems in that department.

Also, took some measurements today. The 50 timing setup is 1/4 wider than the 51. The crank shaft snout length seems exactly the same. Unless there is a difference with the cam shaft where the pulley connects, the timing kits would appear at first glance to be interchangeable as long as you use the cover and damper that matches the year. Guess we'll see when we assemble.

Edit: the 288 balancer is about 7" in diameter and the later 327 one is about 8.5"...also, the 327 one is definitely heavier, although i didn't have a scale out there to weigh the difference.

Also, some of turbo's fine knowledge from the days i thought about rigging up AC without converting to 12 volt:

"I'd just use the front mounts from the '50 and be done with it. I know it can be done because I have a friend with a 359 in his '50 using the original 288 balancer, timing chain and gears, and front mount. You HAVE to use the early water pump with this setup, as the later one goes lower for the lower hood line of the '51 and up cars.

You can try the 327 balancer, but I'm worried that even with the '53 water pump pulley on the '50 water pump it may not line up, YMMV. I'm thinking that the 327 balancer is big enough that it will rub on the front mount upside down "U" piece. It may not, and you may be fine. But I'm thinking that you'll have to at least use a 288/327 5 main balancer on your 327 9 main. If you need one, I have one. Since all these engines are internally balanced I don't see a major problem swapping them over. The only engine I'd worry about doing that to is the 356."

Again, might not work and might cause issues. Only way to tell is to try. I just don't want to get into serial upgrade where you change one thing and it leads to another and another and another until i have a 53 sitting in my driveway and the 50 in pieces going "yeah, i just did some upgrades to my old 50..."

On the differences between the balancers, the '48-'50 style is completely different than the '51-'54 style, as you've already observed. For one, the pulley on the early style is on the back side of the damper, whereas on the late style it's on the front. Also, the early style uses a wider belt, so the late style won't work there. Plus, you'll run into issues with the late style damper hitting the engine mount, since the balancer part is on the back, instead of the pulley.

On the timing chain, if you're using a new '48-'50 timing set on the 327 you'll have no problems with it as long as you use the '48-'50 cover.

As for swapping balancers, IE, putting the 288 balancer on the 9 main 327, I honestly don't think it will be a problem. They're both internally balanced, so it shouldn't matter.

HOWEVER, I cannot guarantee that using a 288 balancer on a 327 will not cause damage, but I'm 99% sure it will not cause any problems whatsoever. What I said in my previous post you quoted holds true, I don't see any real issues with doing this other than on the 356 engine. Hell, I have a friend who used a 300 Ford 6cyl balancer on a 288 with zero problems, after many miles of driving. As long as you're going from an internal balanced engine to an internal balanced engine swapping things like balancers and flywheels should be a non-issue. It's only a problem when you get into internal vs. external balance.

Quote:

It's the internet and i know there's no guarantees, but i thank everyone for the advice. That's the route i was going and for the same reasons, but i realize things could go wrong and have to put the 288 back in if i break something.

The fact that someone used a ford balancer on this motor makes me feel that it should be a non-issue. Of course, i'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

As far as the original cam alignment question, i'll wait until the new kit gets here, the marks will be clear, and i'll align them according to the service manual, downloading now.

Edit: Service Manual 46-50, page 36/37:

"When checking the valve timing on engines equipped with hydraulic tappets, the No. 8 exhaust valve is used when the No.8 piston is completing it's exhaust stroke"

So going by number one was just plain wrong to begin with. Have to print and carefully go over that entire section.

I'm guessing if these gears are right, and i get them off without moving either crank or cam, and put new on...i can then check them against the service manual.

Also, if you check mechanical tappet cams on no. 1 valve and the marks line up but use the same timing set on the no. 8 valve in a hydraulic tappet setup, wouldn't the marks NOT line up? How would i know which set Kanter has in the mail?!

I'm confused and need to think about this so i don't do it wrong.

Quote:

My feelings exactly. I don't really see it as an issue at all, and I'll probably do exactly that on both my 356's.

I'll have to agree with Eric. Go ahead and try the balncer u want to try. It should be ok. No gaurantees but should be ok. In fact it is not really a balancer at all. It's more of a shock absorber than anything else. It dampens the crankshaft windup (torsional twisting)that occurs mostly when #1 fires and tries to twist the crank shaft because all of the load is at the end of the crank at the flywheel. It keeps the torsional wind up, (the twisting of the crank) from snapping back real hard and fast when #1 (and susequent cylinders closest to front of engine) reach the bottom of the power stroke.

Go ahead and try it. Should be just fine. Maybe not Hoyle but it ought to work with no problems.

Some engines don;t even have a damper. Just a pulley.

After some careful thought about this subject I've come to the conclusion that it won't matter what balancer/damper you use, the engine's not going to care. Go for it!