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DELETED TO SAVE MYSELF THE HEADACHE.

I agree that sniping and oneupmanship are not appropriate here or perhaps anywhere. What is needed is helpful information presented with supporting , easily understandable background so that all may understand.

We have a database of 15,000 customers who have bought BTV kits. I will send a questionaire to 100 of them to get reliability and failure data so I can report in the forums.
This should yield real data, not incidental reports.

When information is presented in these forums which I know to be incorrect from my 50+ years of experience, I will correct it. If it is posted with great emphasis and repeated several times, a wimpy reply may not be noticed, thus the strength of some of my replies.

This post deals with a safety issue and for me to not be emphatic when safety is involved would be irresponsible.

Likewise when one member had a PS/Disclaimer at the bottom of hundreds of posts "warning" readers about sells some Chinese made parts (It's us) and in many posts gives unsupported information about the poor quality of such parts, it's time to respond WITH THE TRUTH. All please note the the "Disclaimer" was removed from the hundreds of places it appeared, and with good reason. That was not accomplished with a wimpy response.

To me this is not a "social site", leave that to Facebook. This is a place to share and learn about all things Packard , but there is surely nothing wrong with being sociable.

Fred Kanter

The "disclaimer" was removed because Kevin asked me too, if he hadn't it would still be there, as I think people should be aware that the part they're buying is made in a foreign country. And since it was in a signature, that changes every single post I make when I change it.

As for THE TRUTH and the like, why haven't you answered my questions to you, I've answered your questions?

As a recent '55 Packard buyer, I can no more avoid this topic than I can my dentist.
As such, I for one would really like to know the results of the survey Fred offered to do with his BTV database. Since I'm going to have to make a decision (hopefully soon) about MY BTV, I'd need all the rational empirical data I can get.
It's also been mentioned that the failure rate of these units seems to be a comparatively recent problem. I wonder how much of that is due to that when these cars and units were factory fresh they were used as "Daily Drivers" racking up on average 13,000 miles a year whereas most of us treat our Packard as Sacred Relics and are lucky if they are driven 1,300 miles per year with most of that during the Summer. After looking real hard at the design of the BTV it seems to me that when released, the Compensator Valve sits an "artificial angle" compared to its position when actually doing it's job. I wonder if sitting for long periods with one side of the rubber seal up against cast iron while soaking in brake fluid wouldn't deform the rubber face if not the spring as well. Whereas daily use would at least offer some variety of position. I'm no engineer but I have seen what brake fluid can do to metal and rubber.
I also realize quality of replacement parts and workmanship come into play here, hence the usefulness of Fred's offer. Coming from a long line of new car dealers, I know that the old adage of "never buy a car built on a Monday or Friday" was more than just an Old Wive's Tale.

Hi all:

It's interesting that, given reliabilty complaints, no one (including Bendix) ever developed an upgrade to make the unit more robust. For example and additional guide bushing for the ram, a duplex seal, and a compensator valve that wasn't so cheap. All of these could be fitted to the existing castings. However, I am sure that if the unit was bad back then the State Highway Patrols would have mandated a different set up for Police cars given the frequency of high speed pursuits. Although most of them had manual brakes.

Now a dual system is not two braking systems. I suggest those curious throw open a bleeder on their modern car and test the brakes at low speed. The system works well enough to get the car to a stop, but chances are if you are trying to stop fast you are still going to crack up. You don't get that "pedal to the floor sensation" that makes your hair stand on end.

Thus, a functioning handbrake is a must on these cars, and I have found that some of them just don't work that well for want of new OEM parts.

Way back when, Bendix used to have what were called "service outlets" that had drive on brake equalizing machines. Some people don't believe this except that I knew someone who had one of these machines and it was great.
When set up properly the Packard power mechanical brakes will lock the wheels at over 50mph.

This is all just wind and whenever I drive one of these cars I do a mental calculation as to how many cars were on the road when it was built and keep that in mind. I have seen videos of brand new cars from the 50's losing control in a panic stop. Thus, a properly working BTV is no match for a 32-36 Packard power brake and I always drive such cars with care.

Good luck

The compensator valve rubber face bears against a machined steel hex fitting, not a casting. The rubber is of rather high durometer as I recall, thus not subject to deformation when tilted. Teh rubber used in all brake systems is formulated so as not to be attacked by brake fluid, sitting in brake fluid is like having a fish in water, it will not drown. I have never seen a deformed valve unless the brake fluid was contaminated with a petroleum product.

Brake fluid does nothing to metal and rubber. DOT 3 Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it absorbs water from the air. It is recommended by all manufacturers that you flush the brake system periodically in order to get the water out. It will pit the wheel cylinders and rust any iron based parts in the system such as the metal clad. WE all know cars that have gone for 50,000 miles or 10 years without having this done with no problem, then there are cars which can sit in a damp garage adn in 1 year the brakes are leaking.

Consider this: If you had a car where the oil was to be changed every 3,000 miles or 6 months and you ignored that, if the bearing burned out after 30,000 miles would you be clamoring for the car manufacturer to redesign the motor??

If the mechanic who rebuilt the motor put in defective rod bearings and many cars threw rods through the side of the block, would you blame the manufacturer of the car??

The point is, this problem has a cause and its'not rocket science to find it. Surely hysteia does not help.

The piston does not get loose in any units, therefore does not need an additional or more robust guide bushing. I believe they are hard chromed steel and will rust eventually if there is consdensation in the system. We make replacements in Stainless Steel.

A double seal is not needed, the single seal works fine. An incorrect cover gasket will cause fluid that bypasses the seal not to go back into the reservoir, it will wind up in the vacuum section.

It is not a case of the BTV not being "robust", no reports of them cracking in half. Perhaps the reason Bendix never redesigned the unit back when is that the failure rate was minimal and all repair parts were sourced from them or a major brake parts mfgr like EIS.

My father had a 55 Lincoln with BTV in 1957. We were coming down a hill and the brakes failed, he made it 5 miles to the gas station he used. The BTV was empty, so the mechanic refilled it with motor oil, just as he did the week before. Redesign??


Fred Kanter
Kanter Auto Products
Boonton NJ

I was only doing a little exploring, Fred, actually trying to do what you suggested, and hysteria? Excuse me for posting. I'm just real glad I don't work for you.
That's it - I'm through.

x2

Jim L. Do not let anyone chase u off. THAT IS EXACTLY the ploy of certain individuals.
THis BTV issue (with many many diatribes) has gone on for at least 12 years that i know of. And occurs quite frequently thru out the 12 years.

Inspite of any slightly less than civil or unwelcome remarks the BTV Topic has generated a great deal of interest and sucessful study of the problem. AS WELL as an interim solution (conversions).

To answer your question SPECIFICALLY about the rubber deformation of the compensator valve just look at the cut away views in the manual or those posted here on this forum (usually by HH56). U will see that when the valve is tipped back to the open position that it is drawn to a position where absolutely no part of the rubber touches anything except brake fluid.

I have a study unit here in my shop. My tests concur with the schematics of the manuals.

To Jim L

I was quuite interested in what you posted and replied in what I thoiught was a respectful and helpful manner. If you took offense, I apologize. As for working forme, I think the length of service of many of my employees speaks for itself.. Several 30 years +, many 20 years +, 60 in all with little turnover.


I'm new on this forum, but if I had been watching the discussion go on for 12 years I'd conclude that something had been overlooked. Heck, the atomic bomb was developed in less time.

As a graduate but not licensed engineer and a scientist I will take a fresh look at the subject.


Fred Kanter
Kanter Auto Products
Boonton NJ