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Thanks all of you for the input. I wondered if the impeller was backwards based on the '37-38 shop manual, where it looks like the impeller fins are outboard of the rest of the pump:
<img src="https://p7xepq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mEPnUS3HUgstOxaBvjWaKJr_CiIeh0SbdeLiy6IQAXlWJQcxMWJ14guVagcCeO8aN8Cbd7sYzHTP3pchZGBt_X1Mcc9akVyGrVvqkTeA7y9xuIyc2IbrfrZt0W0mQEzm04a6L2DWgiUNfcy1d4W1RATmRUaURmdZBtJbCFo20pffclBJWW4ET2lOM7GUayN3HVrgh27nYF0QrmEyVXCmb4A?width=354&height=578&cropmode=none" width="354" height="578" />

Regardless, I agree with Owen_Dyneto and flackmaster regarding the inefficiency of the impeller. As it sits right now it leaves a huge gap in the water inlet, which means that likely very little water is actually getting moved.

Jim, you're correct that the engine has a history of overheating. That's what originally destroyed the block. It seems like this water pump/impeller may have contributed, as well as a poorly made water jacket and aftermarket thermostat.

-Kevin

The gap at "A" in the shop manual diagram must be uniform across the entire face and thus the impellor surface which is angled to match must face the pump body.

OEM impeller from a 1934 Eight pump, ignore the brown paint.

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Dave, thanks for the picture. The pump we have has an angled face, and the impeller blades are angled to fit into it. So it appears that the impeller is potentially correct after all.

However, I completely forgot an important detail that makes this all a moot point. The cylinder block is actually a 1939 block, rather than a '38. The old block was ruined and we could not find a '38 anywhere. So it turns out the water pump was completely different for a '39, which means we're now on the hunt for a '39 pump.

-Kevin

Kevin if you don't mind shoot me a PM with an e-mail address,
I may have some pics that would interest you and for some reason the site won't let me upload them. Its probably on my end, I confess to being a Luddite.

I'm enjoying following your progress and I think The engine I took out of my 1705 has a similar history to yours.

Jim/KB1MCV

Jim - PM should be there with the email address. Thanks!


Alright, so here's the issue we're seeing between the '38 pump and the '39 block. The '38 pump is "offset" to the side.
<img src="https://p7wppq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mFjXefF4xeuWYbQhowt6xEqTL-_ERGvg9Zh53eTBMBspIMKT46_O5pUwjNssCM5Zd2qGT7qJpaYZ8iYgHAfQd0x5tay_47YxsADSYM9bcXeu8eSnyRo2TiaoPk9Y5m7Zp5os2iX0_bhn6ulTPIsl0OAGXjcoREybZ5tz21Sneifa3DNcOk6q7jDUkmgWxeizKucFZoq8j9cusXPHqdxxZ-Q?width=315&height=660&cropmode=none" width="315" height="660" />

<img src="https://prxhpq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mcaw_FgYr4sfCLYlBIRLBmPklKnMkxjUmWcx75sZVOWM3JjlpIMPQ2bCW7aCyMJW4fhvOAE9fsQq_Lp_7A-YKO3AlUvEiBpIAqltP82RNBgGEHoVIt8T6ZR2IOB5GaJ8c0FXhaVf20HYRm9uLatpEfBC1Us30SGB5Gi8Yy2Rx5-MZP-PxBMPF2bYYZCA8979T-fJqKN0KreRqKtILJyVaXw?width=315&height=660&cropmode=none" width="315" height="660" />

Whereas the '39 block appears to be centered:
<img src="https://p7wqpq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mWoaSKR2spVquSRdgD5Tf6veW_xy4MCUEW3QlNzCa8goKu0ULMQoaY7iTgqaq77NdZuSY47SO0RYv3f41HSgfKe-iBcW8tntdExSA7xyaLw6IjX_KKl7XaROPNGkB9SlLhaLaJHAQ52NCUDdcannkEK1XpABFzmmgrsOe3OKdxjwrj9TugkDptBKKYTvKMu15vwMXeISgOEpFHRAIZU2iWA?width=660&height=315&cropmode=none" width="660" height="315" />

The only pictures I've been able to find anywhere of a '39 pump are located in this thread: https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21019&forum=8&post_id=206055#forumpost206055

I'm assuming that is the correct set-up for a '39 Super 8, which looks vastly different than the '38 (or what we think is a '38) that we have.

-Kevin

Here's an update for any who are following our saga. My dad and I have been calling around to any source we can find in search of a '39 water pump, and I'm happy to say we have located one. My dad found David from Seattle Packard's and he had just taken delivery of a '39 Super 8 parts car. We reserved the water pump, as well as all the pulleys and fan, in case they are different. The pump will be sent out for rebuild.

During our search I had several great conversations with a few Packard guys, who were very helpful. John Ulrich and I talked for a while about our problem and he shared a lot of knowledge with me. He couldn't help with our specific problem, so he directed me to Parker at Parker's Packards. Parker again was happy to talk and I learned a lot from him.

In addition, I've had several email exchanges with others that have been very helpful. Thank you all for your help and support.

This weekend we'll be wrapping up installing everything in the lower half of the engine and get the oil pan on. After that will be installing the pistons on the rods and getting the block mounted. Then we'll have to wait for the water pump rebuild to get the engine back in the car.

-Kevin

Last weekend we got a bit more done, but not all we were hoping for. We are still waiting on the remaining pistons rings (back-order) as well as the '39 water pump rebuild.

The guy we are working with wants to try something a bit different to install the pistons. The rods are too big to drop through the cylinders, so they need to be inserted from under the block. Since we are waiting on piston rings he wanted to try and push forward with whatever else we could. His plan is to suspend the block a little above the crankcase, with enough room to drop the pistons down from the top of the block, and get the pin through the piston and rod. No idea how well this will work out, but that's the way we're headed right now. I've never assembled an engine, so I'm not sure how it is typically done.

Video of the work:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QpQ2TRUt5tU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The underside of the engine
<img src="https://pbxepq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mnkv_WKXgGiY1kbvhZ1MpeUUXs-Njp6Ew7dHDn4m4cl00VNrZlwhfrOtjjOS_MCAwkAsktqsLxbm_Qq5YbTUXV8DwofY8toBLGpgwy5qmL5c6xof0_b9koJZ01ezDuOVNXJY7ZEtJdVSH-JWbvsPZ_qq_FOHs1IEBvtmOa3uJUZ6jI8Dpd0msaFBYhqiKH9IxdQhB4DnSNQGtf-Gl9ic57w?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none" width="495" height="660" />

Fuel pump and oil cooler installed. We'll get the rest of the oil lines and oil filter installed after the block goes on.
<img src="https://pbwppq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4m17Zjz_MsyyX-dKKLJNDiKTc_TaBl0GwyMYYkpESwrYYAQ4O575b1Yz7UCyhTFWokenlfNoH2NiqXyXUYBfYKH8qI9XkYlHI4XCiUmQ-RiBBBfGdCb5j2d9PRH0t6KvfThWPa6RO2G1ifzxjX7xKSwq8P5WNo5RybHPWBoUfRRQvB22bzUNUPoQ6Bl26PmlPiA0_hQwtYTLbOS19WGY4SxQ?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none" width="495" height="660" />

Also got the timing chain put on. We used the shop manual to show us how to line it up right. After this we drove both the gears on and torqued the camshaft retaining nut down to 160 ft/lbs, then placed and bent a cotter pin.
<img src="https://pbxfpq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mLQAcijGPKXZWCXcZnZbrISDFK49mRjCt6haCYuj_rlKFbjlGHGgTG4ySvILjqBjDld58AevhlsxdTPIP9xI3yBF9ci7gP_8pMTNyNPJsXwjvTs5GEuZLvuOqiDpNYC5AibIADCKpDoNK8C3yjB36jXM1Qb6RRg1IcN48txzWdy6fVZc3XUB4BAcyynRUZ-IJpkbzHtjRvMy1DlY2FunerA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none" width="660" height="495" />

Now we just get to wait. Not much is going to happen for the next month while we wait for parts.


-Kevin

We have nearly all the parts needed to finish the rebuild.

-1939 Water pump rebuilt and ready for install
-1939 Harmonic balancer rebuilt and ready for install
-1939 pulleys cleaned and painted
-Clutch plate resurfaced and rebuilt

All that we are lacking now are the rest of the replacement rings. The guy we are working with has a supplier he typically gets them from but they've been on backorder for months. Any ideas on where we can find the following?

-Standard engine bore 3 3/16" + 0.060" oversize
-Top two rings: 5/64" thick
-Oil ring: 3/16" thick

With the weather warming up we are dying to finish this rebuild!

-Kevin

It's been way too long since we've made any progress. By some miracle the correct piston rings finally came in, and we got the block mounted! More on that later.

We hope to finish getting the engine together tomorrow, and hopefully into the car. If I'm reading the factory service manual correctly, I don't need a thermostat if I'm going to drive the car during warm months. Correct?

<img src="https://olykha.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mEP2Va3gGc7_sLMw5RBnuzd7krSs2lguUbXky1WCI3E1llkt8SR9ME0oPgemct7qp5MKA62Lz5DDpimkBJprNq5l1ky35-49Z40bem7gRbK29mHa6p-vNlsi3hab4YK6MeJmsilWcGMpg3LhbKS30W5mmOZgjq1B-80hPlJF5c7Cy16dd1hcabl0OxgYaJwqOCDy616lfjSd1DBynjZ3ZwA?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none" width="495" height="660" />

Starting to look more like an engine!
<img src="https://olypha.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mchIywq19zEha45qgqlmoTzFjOtHFBm953rImiPJys27ChM4TsrZjpihuAgsFRDeJDWs5BeeLfaQA57AUas7e3IZWrJdgHceiIpemXXNwtonSCkgn2rGzaUvyemc63wn0CQI_o8V_014-zqcSZpMGuUqGlY9Kh5E8J3nblJPSJTakjftm_d0UqpyIJXNn_Ho2-Tus3XZu91zF3rAEJ8qrYQ?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none" width="495" height="660" />

You'll want a shutter thermostat.