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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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All this BS about "Mercedes used it so it must be ok" is about to be refuted:
Quote: Through Chassis Number 5500353 a Bendix Treadle-Vac booster unit was fitted, with a 5-1/4 inch vacuum cylinder which was integral with the master cylinder, providing the startling experience of no brakes at all if the booster unit failed. This was rectified in the later design SL, which used a separately mounted Alfred Teves ATE T50 booster unit, providing unassisted braking should the booster fail. This same unit was used in most of the 180, 190 and 220 series cars of the late fifties. Source:http://www.gullwinggroup.org/history.php Paragraph #18 if you don't want to read it all. Apparently Mercedes experienced BTV failures back in the '50s when we were told by "those who were there" that there were none. Post #5 here:http://forums.190slgroup.com/showthread.php?5799-T-50-Brake-Booster Sticking your head in the sand and complaining about the "sky is falling" crowd still doesn't change the fact that this unit is failure prone across all makes and models, and was superseded by safer units.
Posted on: 2010/11/22 20:10
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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Amen Eric, amen!
Craig
Posted on: 2010/11/22 20:12
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Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"
Time flies like an arrow. Frui |
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Forum Ambassador
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providing the startling experience of no brakes at all if the booster unit failed.
That may be the easy way to write it, because the author probably didn't know exactly what, if anything, that failed. The failure of the booster (vacuum) unit will not cause a no-brake condition. I have stopped the car on a hill without the engine running and no booster in evidence because the vacuum was used up. The TV is still able to apply hydraulic pressure albeit requiring a much greater force to the pedal. The statement as written is not true, but we don't know what actually failed in this anecdote. It may well have been the hydraulic half of the BTV. In any case the example is in error.
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:03
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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Apparently that author is not the only one who would disagree with you: Original Mercedes SL
If you understood how Mercedes used the Treadle Vac in their cars you'd realize that the statement is correct. Funny how Mercedes only used the BTV on the first 353 300SL's, they realized rather quickly that it was unsafe, and even upgraded existing cars with the newer unit.
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:09
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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to HH56
We refer to the deposits in the BTV reservoir as "crud". We believe it is a result of brake fluid that has absorbed water (it's hygroscopic). Car manufacturers all recommended that the brake fluid be flushed and replaced regularly which would keep this from occurring. I guess it's possible the a piece of crud could lodge under the comp valve adn cause it to leak, but that doesn;'t explain the failures we have been hearing about that happen 1 yr after rebuild. To Eric; Interesting inofrmation on the 300SL etc. I do not recall ever saying there no failures "back when". Perhaps my memory is not serving me well, so please point out just where it was written. I do know that today I recounted the story of my father's Lincoln suffering BTV failure with me riding in it in 1957. As you say you havealways answered my questions, I would most appreciate if you would answer this one. Thanks
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:17
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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Hemmings Motor News is also of the opinion that the BTV isn't safe:http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2009/09/01/hmn_buyers_guide1.html
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:19
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Why are V8 owners reporting more failures?? Maybe because they are more modern with the V8/twin Ul-Traumatic adn more fun to drive. Here's a question, if teh V8'sare inherently bad design, why didn't this show up in the 50's/60's/70's when lots of us and our customers were driving them daily? Spoken by someone "who was there". What the hell is "turth"?
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:23
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Home away from home
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Eric. The Mercedes article u found is probably the most amazing and convicing INDEPENDENT evidence found thus far. YOU are an amazing man for having found it AND the Olds pump feasibilty discovery and the Explorer brake conversion.
If anyone deserves a Hallmark portrait in the Packard haLL OF Fame it is Eric. At this point, attempts to defend the BTV are tantamount to defending COrvairs, Vega engines, Firestone tires on Ford Explorers, Toyota throttle controls ..... etc. Beyond any shadow of doubt, the BTV has gone from ridiculous to sublime to become completely absurd.
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:24
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Forum Ambassador
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If you understood how Mercedes used the Treadle Vac in their cars you'd realize that the statement is correct.
Well, please explain it then. The BTV we have all been talking about can still apply hydraulic pressure with no vacuum present. How did Mercedes application differ?
Posted on: 2010/11/22 21:28
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