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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Forum Ambassador
 
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Very good observation. Probably in worst case, even more. Roughly 8 square inches of cover surface x 400-1000 psi less any air that might still be in the reservoir and could compress. One other thing comes to mind. Would the fluid wind up in the vacuum side by way of the bleed port into the area between the seals. Doubt the vacuum side seal would withstand that much pressure.
Posted on: 2012/5/27 20:29
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Howard
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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Home away from home
 
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Excellent idea on the back-flow valve but not likely to be effective for the BTV. As HH56 indicates there is a bleed port down the back wall of the BTV reservoir. That pretty much renders the back-flow valve as ineffective. Mite also allow the remote reservoir to constantly try to fill the beed port thus draining the remote reservoir.
Posted on: 2012/5/27 21:07
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Forum Ambassador
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Giving more thought to the lid and relief port -- you had mentioned earlier possibly using some kind of strap over the lid. Perhaps that is something that could be done for strength.
On the port, the gasket problem we verified last year might actually be an advantage in this case. The cover could be drilled and port vented via a tiny hole directly over the opening on the later BTV versions V8s used. Probably not doable on the earlier ones which had the relief port stop short of the lid. If port is at lid height, fluid would have a hard time getting in from reservoir but could get out via the extra hole if seal leaked. Air could be drawn in if vacuum side leaked.
Posted on: 2012/5/27 21:41
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Howard
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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Home away from home
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Quote:
You just may have hit a fatal flaw in my idea. I hadn't even considered the possibility that the fluid could wind up in the vacuum side - never entered my mind. Plus, I'm having trouble understanding the purpose/function of that bleed port. I know it must have been put there for a reason but what ever that reason is escapes me. It also sounds like something I BETTER understand before applying "fixes". Howard, Ross, Packard V8, and anyone else I've inadvertently left out, thank you for helping think this out. It's why I brought it up and it's truly the strength of this group that everyone who wants and has experience of these cars will give any idea a long and thoughtful critique. Thank you all so very much. Keep 'em coming! On the errant B-T-V in my Patrician, one of my mechanic's guys called in sick today so the "P-M" has been put off until is crew is up to full strength. As soon as it can be delved into; you all will be the first to know.
Posted on: 2012/5/29 18:04
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1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?) 1951 Patrician Touring Sedan 1955 Patrician Touring Sedan |
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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Forum Ambassador
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Inevitably, I believe there will always be a miniscule amount of fluid which can weep around a seal. Some is needed for lubrication but the older & more worn the seal, more the leakage. Might take a while to accumulate a measurable amount but no matter how much, it has to go somewhere.
As I understand it, believe the ports function is to allow any serious amount of fluid to have a path back to the reservoir. Instead of being contained in the closed space between fluid and vacuum seals & have nowhere to go, it can escape rather than have the high hydraulic pressure force it into the vacuum side. Conversely, if the vacuum side seal develops a leak, instead of trying to draw fluid into that side there will be a path up into the reservoir where it can draw air instead of fluid. That was the issue found with the gaskets. Packard appeared to stick with the flat plate cover first used on the units where the port was recessed below the cover. No blockage was possible in that design. When the BTV design changed, most mfgs used a cover with a tube or a channel in the cover to accommodate the port. Packards flat cover combined with the later or other mfgs cover gasket completely blocked the port off.
Posted on: 2012/5/29 18:40
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Howard
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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Home away from home
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Quote:
We did the post mortem on my Patrician's B-T-V today and Howard, your answer to my question couldn't be more complete or appropriate. It was NOT the much maligned Compensator Valve that caused the failure. It was working fine. It was a sudden and complete seal failure which allowed the Vacuum Side to suck the Hydraulic Side bone dry. I took a real close look at the rebuild kit from Max Merritt - in particular, the cork gasket used on the reservoir lid. The cork is thicker than I expected and has provision to leave the bleed port completely unobstructed. I meant to take my camera but I forgot. I'm going to try to get back out there tomorrow WITH the camera and I'll post pictures of their kit.
Posted on: 2012/5/31 23:18
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1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?) 1951 Patrician Touring Sedan 1955 Patrician Touring Sedan |
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Re: Waking Sleeping Beauty
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Home away from home
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There was a piece of info I neglected to mention in the results of the post-mortem.
It appears that the B-T-V unit on my '55 had been rebuilt at some point - in the very early '80s or earlier as to prior to this; the car hadn't been touched from '85 on. The gasket on the reservoir cover had been "assisted" by using some "form a gasket" type sealant as well as the gasket it's self covering the area over the bleed port. The result was that the bleed port was both clogged and sealed shut. From what I gathered from reading posts from Howard, Ross, Packard V8 and others is this may have contributed to the Vacuum Side on my unit sucking the Hydraulic Side dry?
Posted on: 2012/6/2 14:01
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1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?) 1951 Patrician Touring Sedan 1955 Patrician Touring Sedan |
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