Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I think that's the way to go Randy. I don't have any old wheel cylinders to canabalise and we don't have any NAPA stores over here, although we do have other auto parts stores. Unfortunately, they usually only stock parts for modern cars (ie, quicker turnover - $'s and inventory). I like the price you paid. My "professional" reconditioner charged me $121 per pair and I'm now thinking he saw me as a soft touch. I will take down all the cross reference #'s and then contact some suppliers around town. If that comes to nought maybe I can get NAPA to send over a set. Thanks everyone once again for all of your help. Regards, John

Quote:
"they usually only stock parts for modern cars"

Again, the Packard Wheel cylinders are probably the same as some modern US vehicle replacment. Probably modern lite truck. I don't know how wide spread or popular any US made vehicles are in Austrailia. Are there alot of 50's thru 80's Chevies Fords and Chrysler products used (or historicaly used) there in Austrailia????

Let me put it this way:
How uncommon is it to see something on a par with 1980's Chevy pick up truck still roaming the roads of Austrailia?? Or have US built vehicles never been too popular in Oz???? I have no idea.

What amazes me is that a few months ago a European told me that a small block chevy is almost unheard of in the EU.

G'day Guys, time for an update and I'm starting to breathe a bit easier. I went a saw a brake and clutch specialist today (a different one) and he couldn't explain the dodgy piston but agreed it shouldn't be used again. He checked the wheel cylinder bore and said it does look like it has a stainless steel liner and with a light hone, it would be fine to reuse. So, he is going to look for a used piston the correct size and then reassemble the wheel cylinder with new cups and boots. I don't know the cost but it shouldn't be too much (I hope). He also recommended I refit the wheel cylinder for the other side as is as it wasn't giving any trouble, and I'm about to head into the shed to do just that.

By the way PV8, you asked about old American cars over here in good old Oz. They do exist but being a right hand drive country, they couldn't be legally driven on the roads LHD unless converted. A lot were but the big three over here (GM, Ford, Chrysler) reckoned we needed mainly medium sized cars such as the Ford Falcon and Chrysler Valiant, which came on stream in the early '60's. The early ones did have front drum brakes but much smaller than a '56 senior, and before too long they started introducing discs. These days it is possible to register a LHD vehicle for road use but only if it is at least 30 years old (I think). As a result, many are being imported these days.

The brake specialist didn't seem too concerned about sourcing a 1 1/8" piston though, as he said he is aware of other vehicles that run that size.

The comment about Chevy SB 350's is interesting. Many of those have been imported over here, also BB's as well. It's a very popular conversion in the hot rod industry and I was only talking to a couple of fellas about them the other day. There's a lot of old Ford hot rods around but many of them are running Chev motors. When I asked why I was told Chev make the best motors and they rev better than Fords. No mention of Chrysler then, although some use hemi's - maybe they're scarcer. Regards, John

Many thanks JP for the explanation of the US car/lite truck (GM,F and C) popularity in Oz.

As for this statement:
"When I asked why I was told Chev make the best motors and they rev better than Fords. No mention of Chrysler then, although some use hemi's - maybe they're scarcer."

I will not attempt to argue pro or con of the chevy engine as "the best motors". It would be like arguing favorite football teams and create an infinite number of posts of diatribe.

However, the last 3 words of your quote tend to describe exactly why the SBC is so popular relative to other engines of other manaufacture: "... - maybe they're scarcer."

Love them or hate them, the sbc has become, at least here in the US, a standard, by which ALL other engines are judged whether judged higher or lower.

Or to put it another way:
The SBC is like an employee. He doesn't have to be the very best of the skillset pool . He only has to be ABLE and AVAILABLE and affordable!!!

Here in the US, prior to the great scrap metal price increases of 5 years ago, SBC's and sbc parts for decades literally littered the sides of the road, land fills, back yards, garages etc. Parts so common place that in many cases the auto parts stores didn't even have to ask or look up numbers in a book. Parts man sees a customer walking thru the door with a starter, alternator, just about any SBC part in his hand and has the part off of the shelf and laying on the counter before the customer gets to the counter.

I have seen on at least 2 occasions good looking fully dressed sbc's in the back of pickup trucks being pushed off into scrap metal dumpster. When asked, the owner said it was good low mileage running engine. The ONLY reason he scrapped is because he wanted 400hp SBC crate engine instead of a 2bbl SBC.

I could on and on about this. There are many good reasons the SBC is such a success. Reasons that apply to NO other engine except maybe B&S and HD since the mid-50's.

Or to put it another way:

The next time u have to get your wallet out and that car positively absolutely has to run rite now, and u're tired of the 'professionals' guessing at the problem, then u won't be looking at ford or chrysler engines and parts. U'll be looking at SBC's. Whether u love'em or hate'em.

G'day Guys, time to report what's been happening. Unfortunately, my brake specialist found it harder than he thought to come up with a suitable 1 1/8" piston for me. Actually, he found one but it was 1/4" longer than the Wagner one and manufactured out of some sort of alloy. So, with a bit of careful machining in my lathe to the curved face, I was able to reduce it to size without disturbing the seat for the shaft. It was then reassembled in the cylinder with new cups and boots and remounted to the backing plate. Wheel bearings were repacked and the brakes on all four wheels were adjusted and then bled while the fluid was replaced (DOT 4).

Test drives with and without vacuum to the reservoir showed that the brakes are working well with no obvious pulling, although I couldn't detect any difference with braking performance on either run. This suggests that if there is a vac leak anywhere, it's not at the reservoir. The pedal pressure required is still a little heavy for my liking so tomorrow I'll recheck all the connections again. As I had changed the drums, shoes and bearings left to right, the shoes are now lined up slightly differently to before so some more bedding in will have to take place as well.

I did encounter a couple of annoying issues while on the test runs, although not brake related. Today is about 30 C (92 F) so a little on the warm side, but definitely not too hot. However, twice the car developed a miss for a few seconds, similar to what fuel starvation would feel like, and then almost immediately loud pinging. I've only recently rebuilt the fuel pump so don't understand what's happening at the moment. I'll back the timing off a little tomorrow just in case, and go for another test run to see if the problem reoccurs. Carby was rebuilt a couple of years ago as well. Most puzzling and frustrating. Regards, John

Glad you were able to pinpoint the pulling problem to a wheel cylinder piston and make do with a close substitute and a little machining. Still, you might wanna keep a new set of wheel cylinders on your watch list for future use.

Sounds like you've eliminated the vacuum tank as source of the hard pedal feel. I still have to wonder about the integrity of the rest of the vacuum supply system.

In fact, in view of your reports of engine performance, you might wanna test the vacuum advance unit on the distributor for leaks.

That aside, ambient air temp of 92^F is more than hot enough for fuel vaporization issues to rear their ugly head. Pinging also occurs with excessive engine temps; overly advanced timing will contribute to that. Yet, if vac advance and ignition timing prove to be OK, start looking at engine operating temps and the integrity of the fuel supply lines and hoses. Never hurts to check fuel pump output; even a new pump wouldn't eliminate a possibility of a clog or air leak somewhere.

Sounds like you're fighting battles on multiple fronts, but keep whittling away and keep us apprised. Things will eventually shape up.

Thanks Brian. Sorry, my calc's were a little out - it was 86 F yesterday, but still pretty warm. This misfire hiccup has only just arisen and didn't happen the last two outings we went on. Today I'll go over the plugs and timing to make sure they're OK. I also be checking for vac leaks, including the vac advance. I suppose it could be the fuel itself, but it's the same tank fill that was used last time. Even though the carby has been professionally rebuilt, it might be worthwhile getting somebody else to check it out for me (my experience with carby's is limited). Regards, John

Quote:

Do you mean detecting a difference in the pulling or the brake action? You've mentioned the pedal is heavy for your liking. Since there is no adjustment in that respect, if you couldn't detect a difference in assist with or without vacuum, to me sounds as if your booster section isn't working well at all. You should have a fairly large difference.

If it is assist, I'd be curious what happens when you depress the brakes a couple of times with engine off to make sure the reservoir is empty. If you start the engine while holding pedal with medium pressure, does the pedal seem to drop away or get lighter immediately or does it gradually change? It should be quite evident if the assist is working and vacuum supply is good.

G'day Howard, thanks for your help. I did your test and will report on that in a minute. But first, the test I was referring to in my previous post was what happened when the vacuum to the reservoir was disconnected to try and determine if there was a leak at the reservoir. The vacuum hose was plugged but there was still vacuum connected to the BTV during this test. I was thinking that if there was a leak at the reservoir then that would have a detrimental effect on braking performance. If so, isolating the reservoir should improve performance to some extent, but there was no difference.

Now I did as you suggested and depressed the pedal a couple of times with the engine off, then fired her up with the foot still on the pedal. The pedal got lighter and dropped straight away and with one pump, became firm. Is this how it should be? I'm sure the booster is working but I would just prefer there to be a bit more boost. Don't get me wrong though, it's not so bad that it scares the hell out of me, although I do try to allow a longer glide path if I can. I appreciate that if everything else is in good working order then it must be how the BTV was set up.

That being the case, that's how she'll stay as I can live with it. I haven't forgotten the trials and tribulations of doing the job the last time. That's putting it mildly as there were a lot of expletives shooting around the shed with that job, particularly when trying to connect up the brake lines. And she who must be obeyed doesn't really enjoy brake bleeding either, although she's just had to do it again - I know that's going to cost me sooner rather than later. Such is life! Regards, John

It sounds like it is working but am a bit confused by "with one pump, became firm". Should be firm all along but just dropped down a bit more as soon as vacuum became present. Can't picture offhand what the rebuilder would have done to desensitize yours though.

At any rate, it must be working. Stopping the car with just the straight hydraulics and no boost on a BTV is an experience you'd remember but just as soon forget -- at least I know I would.

Not sure which is the more sinking feeling -- practically standing on the pedal as the car in front of you quickly gets closer or coming to the corner and have the pedal go all the way to the floor as you sail thru the stop sign. I've experienced the first and unfortunately, several on the forum the second.